Yes expanding the lower jaw or mandible in Adults is not easy, but certainly some expansion is possible as below pictures show. This is results of 3 years of treatment to reverse the damage of extraction orthodontics, where I spend good half of that time in acrylic palate expanders.
Below picture shows the expansion of my lower palate arch both laterally & anteriorly
Expanded sideways and also forwards to regain the space for bicuspids. I got 4 bicuspid implants now, below shows how my palate has changed over the 3 years. Each bicuspid implant require 7 mm space, so we are talking pretty significant changes to regain all 4 spaces in the arch.
The front teeth may appear to tip forwards, but they were tipped too far back before. The smile and lip support is so much better when the teeth is slightly tipped forwards, in the molds it may look too far out by visually they look fine actually and some of that may also balance out with proper lip seal over time.
Lower arch is challenging to expand because there is no suture down there like there is with the upper jaw, so it is mostly depositional bone growth, moving the teeth out little bit at a time and waiting for the bone to remodel underneath.
We eventually got to the point where we simply couldn’t move the teeth any further out. Like right at the edge of the gums almost. Its been a long while since I finished expanding the lower arch and still bone has not grown further out again, so in my opinion there may be limit to how much you can really expand the lower arch in adults.
Perhaps something that applies that littlest of the forces, and it may take 5-10 years, even that to me is suspect.
Other option is to surgically cut the front part of the jaw and create a suture.
Well I expanded as much as I could and as much as needed to get the bicuspids back, so I moved on to the next phase. I’m not trying to wait 10 years lol.
Interestingly, I expanded the upper palate much further than the lower palate. You would think both palate need to be expanded equally or it would mess up the bite, right? That’s what I first thought as well, but Dr. Gibbs knew better. As we expand the upper palate further out, the lower jaw was able to slide forwards, which means it doesn’t have to expand as much as the upper because as it slides forwards, the posterior wider portion comes forwards to meet the top teeth.
So there were phases where the lower teeth and upper teeth didn’t really match at all, like the lower teeth would be partially biting into the acrylic appliance above, but overtime the bite naturally came together, as the jaw slid forwards and we continued to expand the lower more and the upper teeth that were slightly tipped outwards, began to upright properly.
If you look at my ct scan above you will see just how solid of a bone the mandible is, and the bone remodeling by the teeth may not directly translate to expanding of the thick mandibular bone underneath, however I do believe that the muscle tone of the masseter muscle plays a large role in shaping that bone, and probably expanding the teeth will also help distribute biting forces differently on the bone which may contribute to widening of the jaw bone.
Compared to my before pictures from 4 years back, my lower jaw looks wider, but part of that is caused by the fact that my lower jaw came forwards more. Also when I began chewing more gum I feel like I did notice bit of widening take place as well.
Once we expanded as much as possible, I got into self-ligating bracket braces with coil springs to further create anterior expansion until we achieved 7 mm space for the bicuspids.
Upper Palate Expansion Measurements
From around 33 mm to 40 mm inter molar width, but there was actually even more expansion in my front arch since, I had a narrow front arch so we used a hinge type of expansion device for about 8 months to get significant changes in the front palate.
So really the front of the mouth changed the most, after we got the front arch wide, I had Dr. Gibbs modify the appliance where we got rid of the hinge, added on acrylic and put the screw in the middle to get even more expansion on the entire palate. Also notice the flanges on the front of the appliance and the wires, those were adjusted by the doctor every month to provide forward expansion.
There were few appointments where Dr thought we had enough expansion but I urged him to continue on, I was very aggressive in pushing for as much expansion as I could possibly get.
My mouth posture at the time? not great, I didn’t know much about Mewing back then.
But Expansion was still very important step. The biggest positive benefit are as follows
- No longer self conscious about narrow smile
- expanding and allowing the teeth to come forwards, allowed the lower jaw to come forwards so it resolved the awful feeling of my lower jaw being too far back when talking (opening mouth) which was caused by the extraction orthodontics, and I remember taking a massive hit in social confidence from it
- chronic congestion in the left nostril resolved, I can breathe clearly through both nostrils and it is amazing, the dental assistants comments on how I became so much more calm & relaxed as a result, I believe this is a result of my a change in my breathing pattern, from shallow to more deep diaphragm breaths, resulting in better balance of Oxygen & CO2 in my lungs which has direct impact on the nervous system & improved ability for blood to transport oxygen (reference Buteyko Method)
- Expansion of my front arch gave me the lip support, significant difference in lip form, lips became more full. And I learned about the direct relation between having forward, full frontal arch to ability to smile & talk comfortably and increase in social confidence
- Perhaps most important of all: Increase of Tongue Space in the upper palate
Yes I knew much less about this physical restructuring work back then (4 years ago), I just knew I had to do something about my small palate because it was driving me crazy, that no amount of positive thinking could fix.
I finally got the bicuspid implants in December of 2015 so it was a long road, but can’t put a price tag on having a smile that you are happy about. Yes my hunches were correct, regaining the 4 bicuspid definitely adds something to your smile that doesn’t always translate to orthodontists simply looking at pictures of teeth alignment.
The biggest thing it adds, in my opinion is the feeling of wide support you feel when you smile, it allows for a more relaxed and natural feeling when doing the half smile, you end up smiling more and that does something to your confidence.
Versus before it felt so strained and awkward.
I know now that it was because the canines were pulled back and I lost my frontal arch (lip support).
Some people talk about confidence as a completely an inner mindset thing, and I explored that route for years. but there is already scientific studies that show that just posturing your body differently changes a person’s mood & even hormone levels. Humans have the body, mind, emotion & possibly spiritual aspects that make up who we are & they are all inter connected, assault in one dimension can for sure affect others. Those that simply focus on mindset for self development may be missing a crucial piece and that is that if posture can effect your emotions, then of course your structure can also impact who you are.
Take the most social alpha guy or gal with excellent forward developed jaws, and go extracting teeth from them and put them in retractive orthodontics and see what will happen to that personality in a few years time.
Maybe those ignorant orthodontists still extracting teeth, should give this experiment a try.
From all that I went through, first hand experiencing the disastrous consequences of extraction orthodontics contributing to collapse of the face and massive toll on emotional health.
I want to emphasize to readers.
Bicuspids should never ever be extracted to straighten the teeth
Sutures DO NOT fuse in adults, PALATE SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXPANDED TO FIT THE TEETH
In this membership post, I share some before & after pictures that show pretty staggering changes to my face as we reversed the damages. Big reason why its protected is because I want to keep these photos private & off the internet.
I almost look younger than I did 4 years ago, and I’m 27 now. What makes up our face is the bone underneath it, and when you take out teeth, there is loss of volume not just in the mouth but in the mid face & airway. My lips & mid face definitely became narrower after extraction, and after reversing it, it became more full and healthier looking again. Big contributor of the aging face is the loss of bone volume which results in the sagging of soft tissues. Of course loss of collagen is the other obvious factor.
Dr. Gibbs is/was semi-retired but still treating patients, actually some of my readers are flying out to see him currently going through the same treatment as me.
He is in Grand Rapids, MI
Their office number is: 616-455-3020
He is light years ahead of conventional orthodontists. & practices upon the same principles as John Mew aka “the greatest orthodontist of our time”, they are good friends.
If you have a child that’s between ages of 5-12, I would do whatever it takes to go see one of these doctors that’s doing orthotropics.
Putting your kids in fixed appliance (brackets) needs to be out of the question.
Even without extraction, it is still bad.
The biggest issue facing most kids in modern environment is that they are leaving their mouths open, I see this all the time in public and it pains me to see. And I have yet to come across any other treatment that addresses this problem as effectively as orthotropic’s biobloc stage 3 appliance.
“We all have Mid-Face Deficiency”
The biggest lesson I learned from going through all of this, is that the teeth are merely one of the symptoms of a much larger problem.
Above picture explains it all. Cranial Dystrophy or our jaws growing down instead of forwards, is what caused the teeth to grow in crooked and assault our airway and facial aesthetics.
With my palate expanded and regaining the 4 bicuspids I saw great improvements, but obviously it is not the complete cure because it does not address the fact that my face grew downwards as a child.
For 95% of the modern population, the maxilla is set too far down and back. To what extent your jaws grew downwards, tells the story of how severe your malocclusion was & your compromised airway.
Even if you are not class III (underbite)
The truth is, we are all mid-face deficient.
Even if you are an overbite case.
We’ve been doing our best to affect this area (the midface) with oral myology, training the posterior tongue posture, increasing muscle tone, learning to swallow correctly.
I can say this stuff is vital and it will affect this area as these pictures show.
I’ve been doing it for at least a year now.
It is slowly changing my facial shape for the better.
Biobloc Stage 3 Update
During the day my lips are completely closed, but Mike Mew still detected few mm of lip open posture during speech maybe 3 months ago, which was a surprise. Because I had thought I was pretty dedicated to this. He suggested I start wearing Biobloc stage 3.
Well I had Dr. Mike Mew make me the biobloc stage 3 and have been wearing it for a while. Please note that he cannot make this for you if you are not under a care of a orthotropic doctor. The reason why I had Mike make me this instead of Dr. Gibbs who is completely capable, is that Mike modified the design a little bit, he put the metal bar in the front instead of across the palate which was the original design to leave bit more space for the tongue.
So far I like it a lot better than the clear retainers I was using which caused my jaw to be slightly apart because of the acrylic. & I think that was also encouraging my lips to come apart at night, which could explain why Mike so the few mm apart posture. This is why I am not a fan of most appliances that puts anything in between teeth.
The Stage3 forces your jaws shut, I know it is working because sometimes I am startled out of sleep when my jaws come apart and the flanges activate and in my half sleep state I realize what had happened and my jaws go closed again.
This sounds pretty obnoxious, but it has happened only a handful of times in the last 3 weeks. Most times my jaws seem to be pretty good at keeping shut. I believe large part due to my gum chewing, I already have pretty good muscle tone.
But even with muscle tone, it doesn’t always translate to resolution in posture. Because even when I was chewing a lot during the day, I would notice at times, my lips would be shut but my jaws would be apart. My biggest concerns was what was happening during sleep, especially sleeping on the back. Upon wearing the stage 3 I am finding out that the jaws were probably coming apart from time to time during sleep. Time will tell what continual wear will do.
Maintaining good posture during sleep seems like a real challenge. We know that wearing stage 3 and forcing the jaws shut during sleep improves the face overtime as seen in the girl that was treated by Mike from previous post.
So what affect is open mouth snoring having on large percentage of the population?
Not to mention the quality of sleep is wrecked for yourself and your significant other. The sleep apnea epidemic is real and it is becoming a hot topic as of late.
Update on Maxilla Method
Maybe you can relate to this, but there are several instances in my life where I was faced with a problem, and naturally I’d put effort in trying to resolve the problem, sometimes feeling hopeless, but never giving up. And one day you just stumble onto the solution?
Like a book falling off the shelf type of experience. I’ve had a several of those experiences in life, & sometimes when these events occur in a series, you feel almost guided and makes you wonder… well there might be something out there.
It almost feels like that experience was given, rather than something you went after & created yourself.
The whole experience of me embarking on this palate expansion journey was peculiar. It all started from a comment a friend had made about her experience with childhood orthodontics and the painful rapid palate expansion phase. Right in the midst of feeling like there was something wrong with my teeth.
Which got me thinking about how I never had palate expansion & I started questioning whether I received the right treatment or not at 18.
How I found Dr. Gibbs was also crazy lucky, I originally went to his office because he was carrying the ALF, little did I know he had been practicing orthotropics since the early 90s and regularly flying out Dr. John Mew to Grand Rapids, MI to teach courses. At the time, I knew only surface level stuff about the brilliance of these doctors, I just knew they were somehow connected to Dr. Hang from California who had reverse extraction ortho videos so I knew I was headed in the right direction.
Much the same way, as I was finishing up my orthodontic treatment with Dr. Gibbs I started wondering what I should do now or if there was more that could be done besides “Mewing”. Even though I had great results with getting all 4 bicuspids back and now having the wide smile I had yearned for, I knew I could still benefit greatly from up swinging the maxilla more up and forwards in the face.
At the same time, I was also getting really busy with my marketing business I had developed (quitting my 9 to 5 back in June of last year), I was still looking at other treatment options out there. Back of my mind, I had faith that something might come around.
Then out of no where, this guy called Neymarjr started making claims on the comment sections about his new maxilla advancement technique that was having great results. The timing was really spot on.
I got on the phone with him, and liked what he was doing enough to become the second guinea pig of the procedure.
Its amazing how quickly things can change because just few months ago, I thought I was nearing the end of my treatment, little did I know I will be starting a new one that might be even more impactful than the first.
I am now 3.5 weeks into this new treatment, now coined as the Maxilla Method.
It’s still very early but what I can say is that I am now feeling more forward force on my midface than I’ve ever felt with other methods I’ve tried in the past such as attaching elastics from biobloc to forward head gear crane.
I am sometimes feeling the force in my zygomatic bone and even behind it, sometimes underneath the eye and even something happening with my ear canal and nose.
It is now a known fact that the suture in the skull have latent adult stem cells that can lay down new bone & remodel the shape through osteoclast & osteobblast.
I’ve held my palate molds in my hands that clearly show the new bone formation and significant change in the shape. I was pretty shocked when I first held the before & after molds of my mouth. I didn’t realize that much had changed.
This force that I am now applying to my face through the maxilla method is long term, in fact I am feeling the forces now as I type this. Because I am self-employed I can get some serious hours in everyday so I could potentially produce some substantial case studies. Although Neymarjr has only been doing it at night while sleeping and still seeing great results, I am trying to push the envelope.
I posted some before & after pictures here, as I believe there are already noticeable changes taking place in the face just after 3 weeks. I did my very best to get the same exact lighting & angle, down to the same exact spot at my pad and same time of the day.
Last weekend I went out and felt as though my voice got louder & more clear, I do feel it is affecting my vocal projection but these things might be influenced by the placebo effect so I will keep my findings more on the conservative side for now.
I did have a friend whom I haven’t seen in a while comment that I was looking good & looked bit surprised.
Today I was in my car, and checking out the face in the rear view mirror and I had to do a double take because the perfect balance of sun & shade was revealing new dimensions to my face that I’ve never seen before. It is very subtle, but there has been a slight but definite rise like bread of new bone in the green area highlighted below.
Whats exciting is that now I’m beginning to see these subtle changes that I’ve never yet seen in the past 3 years doing palate expansion, oral myology (mewing), crane wear, facepulling, ncr.
I still got long ways to go, sometimes these changes make me realize how dystrophied I am which is not a nice feeling, a bit of emotional roller coaster but I can only hope its part of breaking through plateaus.
What I value most now is the fact that I am able to put some long term forward forces on my maxilla & feeling the various new sensations in my skull.
If there is negative consequences to wearing a bite block, or those mouth pieces for sleep apnea, then I know there has to be positive consequences for what I’m doing now and that’s inspiration enough to keep pulling as much as possible and see what will happen.
Neymarjr is 4 months into it and has undoubtedly progressed further than since I first spoke to him. He is a good looking mofo now, hard to believe he had any issues before. He is also currently looking into adding another dimension to the treatment that could potentially produce even more aggressive results.
Neymarjr is certainly more of a risk taker than myself, which is saying a lot because I took plenty of risks when reversing the extraction spaces. There was no guarantee from the doctor if it will work.
Since he will test on himself first, we stand to potentially benefit greatly from his strong ambition.
claimingpower.com has become a pretty massive place, & it is now drawing people across the globe with different ideas & solutions. Perhaps the cutting edge treatments will be patient driven solutions from here on out.
I’ve felt for a long time that the patient must lead the treatment, not the doctors.
Even the doctors that are practicing enlightened orthodontics, they still will not know the issues as well as you do.
If you leave it up to the doctors 100%, you may pay dearly months, years down the road.
When I went into my first orthodontic appointment at 18 years old, I was told by my doctor that the adult palate is fused and will not expand, so we have to take out 4 adult teeth. And this is not some distant past but in 2008.
and I believed him.
That was 8 years ago.
It has been a long road dealing with that initial assault.
I also learned a valuable lesson, never trust a doctor’s word even if they state it like a fact.
Even with my second treatment I had to push Dr. Gibbs to achieve more aggressive results than what he was willing to settle for, but he is an exception because he is open minded to listen & proceeded with my requests.
Doctors got bills to pay and a business to run, they can’t have the liberty to be so experimental.
Treating CFD (Cranial Facial Dystrophy) is a real challenge, & currently outside the scope of an orthodontist so they turn to jaw surgeons for the fix, but it is hard to trust if that is truly the best solution because these are the same guys that pull out bicuspids, & claim adult bones are set and the palate is fused.