Lower Jaw Expansion, Maxilla Advancement, Biobloc Stage 3

Yes expanding the lower jaw or mandible in Adults is not easy, but certainly some expansion is possible as below pictures show. This is results of 3 years of treatment to reverse the damage of extraction orthodontics, where I spend good half of that time in acrylic palate expanders.

Below picture shows the expansion of my lower palate arch both laterally & anteriorly



Expanded sideways and also forwards to regain the space for bicuspids. I got 4 bicuspid implants now, below shows how my palate has changed over the 3 years. Each bicuspid implant require 7 mm space, so we are talking pretty significant changes to regain all 4 spaces in the arch.


The front teeth may appear to tip forwards, but they were tipped too far back before. The smile and lip support is so much better when the teeth is slightly tipped forwards, in the molds it may look too far out by visually they look fine actually and some of that may also balance out with proper lip seal over time.

Lower Arch

palate expansion adults


Lower arch is challenging to expand because there is no suture down there like there is with the upper jaw, so it is mostly depositional bone growth, moving the teeth out little bit at a time and waiting for the bone to remodel underneath.

We eventually got to the point where we simply couldn’t move the teeth any further out. Like right at the edge of the gums almost. Its been a long while since I finished expanding the lower arch and still bone has not grown further out again, so in my opinion there may be limit to how much you can really expand the lower arch in adults.

Perhaps something that applies that littlest of the forces, and it may take 5-10 years, even that to me is suspect.

Other option is to surgically cut the front part of the jaw and create a suture.

Well I expanded as much as I could and as much as needed to get the bicuspids back, so I moved on to the next phase. I’m not trying to wait 10 years lol.

Interestingly, I expanded the upper palate much further than the lower palate. You would think both palate need to be expanded equally or it would mess up the bite, right? That’s what I first thought as well, but Dr. Gibbs knew better. As we expand the upper palate further out, the lower jaw was able to slide forwards, which means it doesn’t have to expand as much as the upper because as it slides forwards, the posterior wider portion comes forwards to meet the top teeth.

So there were phases where the lower teeth and upper teeth didn’t really match at all, like the lower teeth would be partially biting into the acrylic appliance above, but overtime the bite naturally came together, as the jaw slid forwards and we continued to expand the lower more and the upper teeth that were slightly tipped outwards, began to upright properly.


If you look at my ct scan above you will see just how solid of a bone the mandible is, and the bone remodeling by the teeth may not directly translate to expanding of the thick mandibular bone underneath, however I do believe that the muscle tone of the masseter muscle plays a large role in shaping that bone, and probably expanding the teeth will also help distribute biting forces differently on the bone which may contribute to widening of the jaw bone.

Compared to my before pictures from 4 years back, my lower jaw looks wider, but part of that is caused by the fact that my lower jaw came forwards more. Also when I began chewing more gum I feel like I did notice bit of widening take place as well.

Upper Arch

palate expansion


Once we expanded as much as possible, I got into self-ligating bracket braces with coil springs to further create anterior expansion until we achieved 7 mm space for the bicuspids.

Upper Palate Expansion Measurements



From around 33 mm to 40 mm inter molar width, but there was actually even more expansion in my front arch since, I had a narrow front arch so we used a hinge type of expansion device for about 8 months to get significant changes in the front palate.


So really the front of the mouth changed the most, after we got the front arch wide, I had Dr. Gibbs modify the appliance where we got rid of the hinge, added on acrylic and put the screw in the middle to get even more expansion on the entire palate. Also notice the flanges on the front of the appliance and the wires, those were adjusted by the doctor every month to provide forward expansion.

There were few appointments where Dr thought we had enough expansion but I urged him to continue on, I was very aggressive in pushing for as much expansion as I could possibly get.

My mouth posture at the time? not great, I didn’t know much about Mewing back then.

But Expansion was still very important step. The biggest positive benefit are as follows

  • No longer self conscious about narrow smile
  • expanding and allowing the teeth to come forwards, allowed the lower jaw to come forwards so it resolved the awful feeling of my lower jaw being too far back when talking (opening mouth) which was caused by the extraction orthodontics, and I remember taking a massive hit in social confidence from it
  • chronic congestion in the left nostril resolved, I can breathe clearly through both nostrils and it is amazing, the dental assistants comments on how I became so much more calm & relaxed as a result, I believe this is a result of my a change in my breathing pattern, from shallow to more deep diaphragm breaths, resulting in better balance of Oxygen & CO2 in my lungs which has direct impact on the nervous system & improved ability for blood to transport oxygen (reference Buteyko Method)
  • Expansion of my front arch gave me the lip support, significant difference in lip form, lips became more full. And I learned about the direct relation between having forward, full frontal arch to ability to smile & talk comfortably and increase in social confidence
  • Perhaps most important of all: Increase of Tongue Space in the upper palate

Yes I knew much less about this physical restructuring work back then (4 years ago), I just knew I had to do something about my small palate because it was driving me crazy, that no amount of positive thinking could fix.

I finally got the bicuspid implants in December of 2015 so it was a long road, but can’t put a price tag on having a smile that you are happy about. Yes my hunches were correct, regaining the 4 bicuspid definitely adds something to your smile that doesn’t always translate to orthodontists simply looking at pictures of teeth alignment.

The biggest thing it adds, in my opinion is the feeling of wide support you feel when you smile, it allows for a more relaxed and natural feeling when doing the half smile, you end up smiling more and that does something to your confidence.

Versus before it felt so strained and awkward.

I know now that it was because the canines were pulled back and I lost my frontal arch (lip support).

Some people talk about confidence as a completely an inner mindset thing, and I explored that route for years. but there is already scientific studies that show that just posturing your body differently changes a person’s mood & even hormone levels. Humans have the body, mind, emotion & possibly spiritual aspects that make up who we are & they are all inter connected, assault in one dimension can for sure affect others. Those that simply focus on mindset for self development may be missing a crucial piece and that is that if posture can effect your emotions, then of course your structure can also impact who you are.

Take the most social alpha guy or gal with excellent forward developed jaws, and go extracting teeth from them and put them in retractive orthodontics and see what will happen to that personality in a few years time.

Maybe those ignorant orthodontists still extracting teeth, should give this experiment a try.

From all that I went through, first hand experiencing the disastrous consequences of extraction orthodontics contributing to collapse of the face and massive toll on emotional health.

I want to emphasize to readers.

Bicuspids should never ever be extracted to straighten the teeth


In this membership post, I share some before & after pictures that show pretty staggering changes to my face as we reversed the damages. Big reason why its protected is because I want to keep these photos private & off the internet.

I almost look younger than I did 4 years ago, and I’m 27 now. What makes up our face is the bone underneath it, and when you take out teeth, there is loss of volume not just in the mouth but in the mid face & airway. My lips & mid face definitely became narrower after extraction, and after reversing it, it became more full and healthier looking again. Big contributor of the aging face is the loss of bone volume which results in the sagging of soft tissues. Of course loss of collagen is the other obvious factor.

Dr. Gibbs is/was semi-retired but still treating patients, actually some of my readers are flying out to see him currently going through the same treatment as me.

He is in Grand Rapids, MI

Their office number is: 616-455-3020

He is light years ahead of conventional orthodontists. & practices upon the same principles as John Mew aka “the greatest orthodontist of our time”, they are good friends.

If you have a child that’s between ages of 5-12, I would do whatever it takes to go see one of these doctors that’s doing orthotropics.

Putting your kids in fixed appliance (brackets) needs to be out of the question.

Even without extraction, it is still bad.

The biggest issue facing most kids in modern environment is that they are leaving their mouths open, I see this all the time in public and it pains me to see. And I have yet to come across any other treatment that addresses this problem as effectively as orthotropic’s biobloc stage 3 appliance.

“We all have Mid-Face Deficiency”

The biggest lesson I learned from going through all of this, is that the teeth are merely one of the symptoms of a much larger problem.


Above picture explains it all. Cranial Dystrophy or our jaws growing down instead of forwards, is what caused the teeth to grow in crooked and assault our airway and facial aesthetics.

With my palate expanded and regaining the 4 bicuspids I saw great improvements, but obviously it is not the complete cure because it does not address the fact that my face grew downwards as a child.

For 95% of the modern population, the maxilla is set too far down and back. To what extent your jaws grew downwards, tells the story of how severe your malocclusion was & your compromised airway.

Even if you are not class III (underbite)

The truth is, we are all mid-face deficient.

Even if you are an overbite case.

We’ve been doing our best to affect this area (the midface) with oral myology, training the posterior tongue posture, increasing muscle tone, learning to swallow correctly.

I can say this stuff is vital and it will affect this area as these pictures show.

I’ve been doing it for at least a year now.

It is slowly changing my facial shape for the better.

Biobloc Stage 3 Update

During the day my lips are completely closed, but Mike Mew still detected few mm of lip open posture during speech maybe 3 months ago, which was a surprise. Because I had thought I was pretty dedicated to this. He suggested I start wearing Biobloc stage 3.


Well I had Dr. Mike Mew make me the biobloc stage 3 and have been wearing it for a while. Please note that he cannot make this for you if you are not under a care of a orthotropic doctor. The reason why I had Mike make me this instead of Dr. Gibbs who is completely capable, is that Mike modified the design a little bit, he put the metal bar in the front instead of across the palate which was the original design to leave bit more space for the tongue.

So far I like it a lot better than the clear retainers I was using which caused my jaw to be slightly apart because of the acrylic. & I think that was also encouraging my lips to come apart at night, which could explain why Mike so the few mm apart posture. This is why I am not a fan of most appliances that puts anything in between teeth.

The Stage3 forces your jaws shut, I know it is working because sometimes I am startled out of sleep when my jaws come apart and the flanges activate and in my half sleep state I realize what had happened and my jaws go closed again.

This sounds pretty obnoxious, but it has happened only a handful of times in the last 3 weeks. Most times my jaws seem to be pretty good at keeping shut. I believe large part due to my gum chewing, I already have pretty good muscle tone.

But even with muscle tone, it doesn’t always translate to resolution in posture. Because even when I was chewing a lot during the day, I would notice at times, my lips would be shut but my jaws would be apart. My biggest concerns was what was happening during sleep, especially sleeping on the back. Upon wearing the stage 3 I am finding out that the jaws were probably coming apart from time to time during sleep. Time will tell what continual wear will do.

Maintaining good posture during sleep seems like a real challenge. We know that wearing stage 3 and forcing the jaws shut during sleep improves the face overtime as seen in the girl that was treated by Mike from previous post.

So what affect is open mouth snoring having on large percentage of the population?


Not to mention the quality of sleep is wrecked for yourself and your significant other. The sleep apnea epidemic is real and it is becoming a hot topic as of late.

Update on Maxilla Method

Maybe you can relate to this, but there are several instances in my life where I was faced with a problem, and naturally I’d put effort in trying to resolve the problem, sometimes feeling hopeless, but never giving up. And one day you just stumble onto the solution?

Like a book falling off the shelf type of experience. I’ve had a several of those experiences in life, & sometimes when these events occur in a series, you feel almost guided and makes you wonder… well there might be something out there.

It almost feels like that experience was given, rather than something you went after & created yourself.

The whole experience of me embarking on this palate expansion journey was peculiar. It all started from a comment a friend had made about her experience with childhood orthodontics and the painful rapid palate expansion phase. Right in the midst of feeling like there was something wrong with my teeth.

Which got me thinking about how I never had palate expansion & I started questioning whether I received the right treatment or not at 18.

How I found Dr. Gibbs was also crazy lucky, I originally went to his office because he was carrying the ALF, little did I know he had been practicing orthotropics since the early 90s and regularly flying out Dr. John Mew to Grand Rapids, MI to teach courses. At the time, I knew only surface level stuff about the brilliance of these doctors, I just knew they were somehow connected to Dr. Hang from California who had reverse extraction ortho videos so I knew I was headed in the right direction.

Much the same way, as I was finishing up my orthodontic treatment with Dr. Gibbs I started wondering what I should do now or if there was more that could be done besides “Mewing”. Even though I had great results with getting all 4 bicuspids back and now having the wide smile I had yearned for, I knew I could still benefit greatly from up swinging the maxilla more up and forwards in the face.

At the same time, I was also getting really busy with my marketing business I had developed (quitting my 9 to 5 back in June of last year), I was still looking at other treatment options out there. Back of my mind, I had faith that something might come around.

Then out of no where, this guy called Neymarjr started making claims on the comment sections about his new maxilla advancement technique that was having great results. The timing was really spot on.

I got on the phone with him, and liked what he was doing enough to become the second guinea pig of the procedure.

Its amazing how quickly things can change because just few months ago, I thought I was nearing the end of my treatment, little did I know I will be starting a new one that might be even more impactful than the first.

I am now 3.5 weeks into this new treatment, now coined as the Maxilla Method.

It’s still very early but what I can say is that I am now feeling more forward force on my midface than I’ve ever felt with other methods I’ve tried in the past such as attaching elastics from biobloc to forward head gear crane.

I am sometimes feeling the force in my zygomatic bone and even behind it, sometimes underneath the eye and even something happening with my ear canal and nose.

It is now a known fact that the suture in the skull have latent adult stem cells that can lay down new bone & remodel the shape through osteoclast & osteobblast.

I’ve held my palate molds in my hands that clearly show the new bone formation and significant change in the shape. I was pretty shocked when I first held the before & after molds of my mouth. I didn’t realize that much had changed.

This force that I am now applying to my face through the maxilla method is long term, in fact I am feeling the forces now as I type this. Because I am self-employed I can get some serious hours in everyday so I could potentially produce some substantial case studies. Although Neymarjr has only been doing it at night while sleeping and still seeing great results, I am trying to push the envelope.

I posted some before & after pictures here, as I believe there are already noticeable changes taking place in the face just after 3 weeks. I did my very best to get the same exact lighting & angle, down to the same exact spot at my pad and same time of the day.

Last weekend I went out and felt as though my voice got louder & more clear, I do feel it is affecting my vocal projection but these things might be influenced by the placebo effect so I will keep my findings more on the conservative side for now.

I did have a friend whom I haven’t seen in a while comment that I was looking good & looked bit surprised.

Today I was in my car, and checking out the face in the rear view mirror and I had to do a double take because the perfect balance of sun & shade was revealing new dimensions to my face that I’ve never seen before. It is very subtle, but there has been a slight but definite rise like bread of new bone in the green area highlighted below.


Whats exciting is that now I’m beginning to see these subtle changes that I’ve never yet seen in the past 3 years doing palate expansion, oral myology (mewing), crane wear, facepulling, ncr.

I still got long ways to go, sometimes these changes make me realize how dystrophied I am which is not a nice feeling, a bit of emotional roller coaster but I can only hope its part of breaking through plateaus.

What I value most now is the fact that I am able to put some long term forward forces on my maxilla & feeling the various new sensations in my skull.

If there is negative consequences to wearing a bite block, or those mouth pieces for sleep apnea, then I know there has to be positive consequences for what I’m doing now and that’s inspiration enough to keep pulling as much as possible and see what will happen.

Neymarjr is 4 months into it and has undoubtedly progressed further than since I first spoke to him. He is a good looking mofo now, hard to believe he had any issues before. He is also currently looking into adding another dimension to the treatment that could potentially produce even more aggressive results.

Neymarjr is certainly more of a risk taker than myself, which is saying a lot because I took plenty of risks when reversing the extraction spaces. There was no guarantee from the doctor if it will work.

Since he will test on himself first, we stand to potentially benefit greatly from his strong ambition.

claimingpower.com has become a pretty massive place, & it is now drawing people across the globe with different ideas & solutions. Perhaps the cutting edge treatments will be patient driven solutions from here on out.

I’ve felt for a long time that the patient must lead the treatment, not the doctors.

Even the doctors that are practicing enlightened orthodontics, they still will not know the issues as well as you do.

If you leave it up to the doctors 100%, you may pay dearly months, years down the road.

When I went into my first orthodontic appointment at 18 years old, I was told by my doctor that the adult palate is fused and will not expand, so we have to take out 4 adult teeth. And this is not some distant past but in 2008.

and I believed him.

That was 8 years ago.

It has been a long road dealing with that initial assault.

I also learned a valuable lesson, never trust a doctor’s word even if they state it like a fact.

Even with my second treatment I had to push Dr. Gibbs to achieve more aggressive results than what he was willing to settle for, but he is an exception because he is open minded to listen & proceeded with my requests.

Doctors got bills to pay and a business to run, they can’t have the liberty to be so experimental.

Treating CFD (Cranial Facial Dystrophy) is a real challenge, & currently outside the scope of an orthodontist so they turn to jaw surgeons for the fix, but it is hard to trust if that is truly the best solution because these are the same guys that pull out bicuspids, & claim adult bones are set and the palate is fused.


294 thoughts on “Lower Jaw Expansion, Maxilla Advancement, Biobloc Stage 3”

  1. Amazing stuff CP, your posts are what keep me going whenever I get fed up of my face, the fact that you’ve proved it can be changed for the better. Definitely going to buy a membership next month to see the results of the Maxilla Method. Aiming to put as much money as I can towards palate expansion and that kind of stuff, I live in the UK, do you think what you’ve had done can be done by Mike Mew?

  2. Hello, I was wondering if the whole process of reverse extraction would be
    unnecessary if my wisdom teeth have not yet been removed. I have been practicing proper oral posture for about 4 months now, so I am still new to all this information about palate expansion. I understand that the size of the bicuspids are smaller than the wisdom teeth, so this might account for the main reason reverse extraction is a good idea. There is, however, a complication with one of my wisdom teeth. One of them is on its side, and I wonder if its possible to slowly correct it over time. I have many questions about my next form of action, but I understand you are busy so any information would be greatly appreciated by you or anyone willing to comment or chat. Thank You.

  3. Amazing post. I’m going to give Dr. Gibbs a call and see if he is willing to take on my case.

    Quick question to anyone out there, I’m relocating soon to be closer to an orthodontist who is willing to help reverse my extraction/space closing and am probably going to choose either Dr. Hang out in Cali (going to do a consult with him soon, been speaking via email), and Dr. Gibbs. Anyone have experience with either or both that can give me some advice/info/whatever to help me decide? I see that cost of living and especially rent is way better in Michigan so that could be a huge factor right there, but i’m more concerned about getting great treatment and avoiding surgery at all costs. I’m guessing that Dr. Gibbs will charge me less overall as well but then I will have to deal with the midwestern weather.

    BTW CP i’m looking back through your pictures and stuff and I have to say that you look amazing in the June 2015 pictures with the green hoodie on. In the pictures after that when you got the implants done it looks like your face got bloated a bit and your face looks less vibrant. Implants are a pretty invasive procedure, do you think this had any effect on your health/facial looks? Or is it simply that you put on weight or something. Just wondering. I’m probably going to try and get this done in such a way that there are gaps between all my teeth and avoid implants if possible (im missing incisors and not premolars). Don’t know if this will lead to a stable final result or not.

    My mother had huge problems with implants and her health but she got the metal ones, so that’s why I thought of that first.

    1. I have not had any issues with implant. My implant was ceraroot though, which is ceramic. I think that was just the angle of the picture, if you look at my most recent pictures after bit of maxilla method, I feel I look better now than I ever did before.

      1. Without a doubt the post maxilla method picture is the best one out of all of them. I’m really excited to see how far you can take things. I was trying to take that one out of the equation though just to see if the implants themselves had any effect.

        As far as the other pictures go I realize after looking more closely I was thrown off by the different hairstyles, different color clothes (certain colors make certain skin types ‘pop’), and the fact that your skin is more pale in the winter pics (January, etc) than in the June pics (summer). I’ve lived in Illinois before and I know around there that once October hits there is basically no sunlight until mid next year so that could explain the vibrancy factor. Also your hair in the June pics has much more bulk on the sides which threw me off too.

        All in all, when I looked more carefully and took the hair out of the equation and normalized the colors I can tell that your face is getting wider (not bloated) and the midface is coming up and out producing that 3d look.

          1. It doesn’t provide much direct force on the maxilla, so only relying on that would take years to see great changes. Some people can get faster improvements with posture alone because their mouths are probably already in a good position to get the posterior third of their tongue up. A woman named Michale Fetzik was posted here as a success story of myofunctional therapy (“Mewing”, essentially), but she had her palate surgically expanded beforehand. If not everyone can get their tongue up properly to begin with, the whole thing is worthless.

            Not to put words in his mouth, but I think CP’s fed up with nitpicking in the mirror to see if something moved half a millimeter over six months, and I wouldn’t blame him if that’s the case. Immediate changes are a lot more exciting, as is taking a risk. While oral posture might help (it’s still important) and provide some changes, directly moving the maxilla should give much better results and a lot sooner than anything else.

          2. Chewing hard things and mewing works much better when you are young and still growing. When you’re an adult you have to do more drastic things if you want to see huge changes in a short time span.

            What Running Zack said is all true too.

            That said, i’ve seen good results just from mewing and gum chewing and i’m older and my palate is only 31.8 mm due to bad ortho. I mean, what’s the alternative? Are you going to stop all of the advice on this site and become a mouth breather and only eat pudding and bananas?

          3. I agree with Running Zack and A however I like to add something AGAINST chewing gum.

            The Skull is a very complicated structure and the effects of chewing gum are not fully understood – Many users here may even begin chewing hard gum with good intentions but are unaware they are actually solidifying any current problems and possibly making them worse.

            The general consensus I have seen talked about here is to buy hard gum and chew it to increase strength or to chew specifically on one side – If you have an asymmetrical/dystrophic-effected face(which many do end up with after extractions, braces etc.) you could potentially be making matters ALOT worse.

            I would also be interested to hear as to how some of you are selecting the side to chew on the most – Many indicators which one believes signify a correct place to chew could be interpreted incorrectly.

            It is not worth Chewing Gum prior to treatment as even if done right the gains are very little.

            Chewing gum should be done at the very final stage equally on both sides of the mouth to help strengthen the muscles – aiding in keeping the mouth closed and also solidifying ones CORRECTED results.

  4. Hi my friend, first of all thanks for this page and sorry for my english since im from Uruguay (southamerica) and speak spanish so…

    I just want to know if i can do something to enlarge my palates, i dont have any of the 4 wisdom teeth and some toher were taken. I have a normal structure in general and nice teeth but they dont show up nicely when i smile and also have a streth palate i think, and of course it would be a dream to enhance my lower jaw. To sum up, i have 14 teeth up and 16 down.

    Im chewing mastiha gum, doing the tongue excercises, swallowing etc etc…
    Do i need an appliance to help the stretch palate? Do common orthodontics give this appliances? Or i have to travel to this kind of docs like Mew to give me a better smile?? thanbks a lot !!

  5. Also, is there any way to make “space” to put new teeth (impants i guess) in those places were the extracted teeth were…all this to enlarge the palate…

    Is this common?

  6. Thank you so much for this article ! I am interested in purchasing Neymar’s program, is it possible to contact him ? Does he have a mail adress ? It’s so cool that he found that for us.

  7. Hi all I have a question I was hoping someone could help me with. If my wisdom teeth still haven’t grown in will proper tongue posture while they come in help my maxilla and jaw to move forward. I am already an adult but will the additional teeth growing in help move things in a forward direction. My dentist says I have enough room for them to grow in

    1. Wisdom teeth are one factor of many, including proper mouth posture, tongue posture, nasal breathing, and body posture. All of these things will support the face and probably move the maxilla up and forwards slowly over time, if used together. I don’t believe just having wisdom teeth will do anything for you, as they’ll support your face a bit more but won’t move anything. The tongue posture might feel easier to do with more dental support, that’s what I’m thinking right now – my bottom wisdom teeth are just coming in and I think my mouth might feel fuller once they’re all together. Maybe not enough to make a real difference, though.

      Many adults get their wisdom teeth removed, but there are a lot that still have their wisdom teeth and don’t look attractive, probably due to lack of oral posture. IMO tongue posture is a lot more important. It’s nice that you didn’t get extractions, but the teeth growing in probably won’t influence anything a whole lot.

    2. Hi JSP,

      I am 29 and I have been Mewing for almost two years while my wisdom teeth were coming. My dentist said I didn’t have enough room for them to properly erupt and that I had to surgically remove them, but I didn’t and I mewed instead.

      I can report that while three of my four wisdom teeth have come out, the crowding of my other teeth didn’t worsen, like my dentitst said it would.

      So I guess proper tongue posture helped in some way, and I don’t even have enough space in my mouth for my posterior tongue to properly do the job.

      But my maxilla didn’t swing up, and my wisdom teeth are impacted.

  8. Thanks for the responses guys, I won’t be getting them extracted in any case because i have a wide palate and enough room, my maxilla is still down and back however and I was wondering if they would have any effect.

    Also Sally-you say you’ve been mewing for 2 years. Can you see any difference so far in the placement of your maxilla? I know you said you don’t have room for your posterior tongue, but has mewing made any difference for you? I have only been mewing for 2 months so its too early for me to tell. Although the adoption of a closed mouth posture vs. open and better head and tongue posture does seem to be an immediate upgrade.

    1. @JSP, my face did change, but it’s nothing major.

      My eyes seem to be a teeny tiny bit less droopy on the outside corner, less tired too. And my face looks fuller and wider, but it looks more like I have gained weight, although I have actually lost 15lbs over the course of this last year. So I guess my maxilla did move in some way, but I’m not positive. Overall, I’m not sure my face looks better, but I’m positive it looks different.

  9. I feel like without getting palate expansion, I am unable to make much progress. I can’t find a single biobloc provider in my region and unfortunately, as minor, I can’t do much traveling.

    I have started to tape my mouth closed at night so that I can stop being a mouth-breather. I’ve fallen behind quite a lot when it comes to chewing gum so I’m trying to restart that. I do think that even with weak and inconsistent attempts to remain good tongue posture and keep my mouth closed has improved my face, but not even close to the degree that I’d like.

    My overbite is continuing to get worse (as a result of my maxilla being way too far back in my face) and once in a while I’ll wear my retainer to try to make it recede but my retainer also tries to stop my jaw widening and my other teeth moving to better positions.

    I hope to start the Maxilla Method in a year, when I can afford it, as well as find a dentist who can help me widen my palate.

    1. The one thing that people need to understand on this site is that, There are many other Palatal Expansion appliances which work identically to the BioBloc range of devices.

      If you cannot find a BioBloc provider then find somebody who uses a DNA Expander, if not DNA, then another expander… The list goes on. – The differences in these devices is very little, BioBloc allows you to slightly keep your tongue higher in the palate – however many people with narrow palates cannot even keep there tongues in the pallen – so why does this concern you anyway, you are confusing yourselves highly on the matter over stuff which doesnt even make a overall differenc.

      BIOBLOC isnt the be all and end all – Get another Palate expander.

      Simple As.

    2. A DNA Appliance is suitable, or read my post below to understand what to look for in other palatal expanders.

      Many do the same job.

  10. I’m an adult who hasn’t had their wisdom teeth through yet, but has had no extractions and would like their palate expanded. Where can I find an orthotropics dentist to take on my case? I live in the UK

  11. Hello

    I tried a few times to join the membership but after I put the details I am transfered to …/transaction page with a message “Oops! That page can’t be found.”

    Anyway, I am wondering if any of my payments got through ?



  12. Does anybody else think that people with forward maxillas look a lot better with interesting hairstyles and/or more interesting looks overall? I know Justin Bieber isn’t the best example, as his slightly lengthened face has been examined in a previous article, but I’ll use him anyway because I’ve been wanting to post about him here for a long time.

    Very recently, JB put his hair into dreadlocks. He got a lot of flack about them, but I think he at least looked unique. I’m not a fan of dreads at all, but IMO the “eww white guys with dreads” criticism could partly stem from whites with retruded maxillas wearing a hairstyle associated with people who either have a different skull shape or people in other countries who have better facial development.

    Here are a few photos:

    Maybe about two weeks ago, Justin shaved his head. Here’s what it looks like:

    His actual features still look good, as his face obviously didn’t change within a few weeks. I think he’s attractive enough to basically pull off anything, but he looks extremely bland to me with a shaved head. If he wasn’t famous, I’d say his appeal in public would have been lowered. I think having no hair at all (vs. longer hair, or even an inch of hair) has a huge effect on how the face is perceived, whether somebody’s maxilla is up and forwards or not. Personally, I like the idea of long hair flowing back and away from a person’s head while their face is horizontal and appears to be pushing forward in the opposite direction.

    Here’s another guy I think would look a lot less interesting with a shaved head:

    Just like men with long hair usually being called terrible, face/neck tattoos are a lot less damaging in terms of status on attractive people. Here’s an example, although I’m not saying the ink on his face looks good:

    “Good looking people look better with X” clearly is not news to anyone on this site, but I’m still kind of shocked that his bone structure almost “overcomes” all those tattoos, if that makes any sense.

    Ignoring the face tattoos, I’m mostly talking about hair and clothing choices. Do you think some people with a more forward maxilla may look even better with a more eccentric style? When I think about it, being able to pull something off that would look extremely ugly or weird on most of the population could draw the eye even more than their already nice face just because of how rare it is for them to still look good in spite of doing something typically frowned upon. A fairly tame example off the top of my head is an attractive guy continuing to dress in nothing but streetwear (Urban Outfitters, Zumiez, Supreme, that kind of stuff for teens) despite being 30+ years old. An unattractive guy would definitely be ridiculed for looking like he’s still in high school. No, I’m not saying attractive people should strive to look as foolish as possible or wouldn’t look good in regular clothing, but it’s certainly a privilege to be able to do practically anything and not look too bad no matter what.

    I suck at articulating my thoughts, but I’m interested in knowing if anyone else feels the same way.

    1. ***Justin didn’t have dreadlocks, apparently just “locks” / matted hair from what a lot of people are saying.

    2. Justin Bieber.. interesting that you brought him up. I downloaded 4 pictures of him from 2 years apart each and saw how his amazing facial features as a youngster got completely blown apart by orthodontics, then made a slightly comeback recently.


      Buzzcut is a very masculine haircut, I don’t think most can pull it off enough to warrant having one. You have to look very tough and almost dangerous. Having a beard really helps. I don’t know if maxilla matters or not, I think you just have to look like you are a villain almost.

      Great thick shiny hair is a sign of health and most people will always look better with at least some of it on their head, just to show off their health. That is the evolutionary purpose of hair so it makes sense. Interesting haircuts looking better on attractive people makes sense too because it grabs your attention and forces you to notice their face and how attractive it is. Maybe. That’s just a theory. There is also something called a halo effect where attractive people can get away with more stuff just because they are attractive.

      But speaking of celebrities who shortened their long faces Kanye west is another example. It took him some years to do this though… hopefully we can find a way to make this faster.

      1. I was looking at pics of Kanye from years ago compared to present day and it’s arguable if there was a change at all, though it seems to vary between photos. If it changed at all, my theory is that while recovering from the injuries he got in a car accident in 2002 I believe, he must’ve improved keeping his jaw shut or something.

        1. I definitely see a difference, but I have been looking at and analyzing faces like crazy ever since I found this site.

          Kanye looks beefier in general in his recent photos, maybe he started lifting weights? I have a theory that this helps the face reform more quickly due to more musculature overall, more hormones released, clenching jaw while working out, etc

          This isn’t the first celeb I have seen to get a better face after bulking up. As soon as I get better occlusion and can eat more food I will start lifting weights again

          1. Ah yes, I can see it now. I was mistakenly looking at photos that are professional and likely out of date; his cheeks do look quite beefy in the paparazzi photos.

            Can you list some other celebs; either celebs in general or ones who look better with more muscle? In my opinion, sometimes the added beef makes them look worse. Examples off the top of my head are The Rock and Terry Crews. Rock has a nice face either way, but shaving his head and becoming even more muscular took away a lot of his appeal that he had when he was an active wrestler. Terry being black and bald makes him very generic looking, so chiseling himself seems unnecessary because he’s just accentuating a boring look – similar to Kanye because dark skin and dark eyes make it harder for him to show off his features or uniqueness.

            I mainly admire the feminine aesthetic, because the things I find attractive are also what I want for myself. Also, the use of makeup and long hair make it easier to craft a look that stands out. My favorite celebrity faces to examine are Angelina Jolie, Jessa Duggar, and Taylor Swift.

            What’s interesting about Jessa is that she’s from the show 19 Kids and Counting, so she has quite a lot of sisters – the sisters who are all very close in age have different shaped faces, one of which has/had very bad teeth. They all grew up on the same diet and as far as I know, none were more active than the others, nor did their lifestyle really differ. While watching the show, you can see many of the kids are leaving their mouths open in varying intervals. It’s quite fascinating seeing so many people be raised the same and turn out so differently.

            While Jessa is by far the prettiest, her older sister Jana is also extremely good looking. Jana has a twin brother, who you might expect to look like a prince if you’re considering genetics, but he looks pretty bad (he usually has his mouth open). I suggest you look at a picture of them together to see the stark contrast (just Google “Jana and John David Duggar”).

      2. Slightly off topic but speaking of celebrities, what do you guys think of the singer Ariana Grande? She has quite a young, cute looking face with relatively good development. What sticks out to me is her jawline, which is very sharp and defined but manages to still look feminine.

        She seems to have a slightly narrowish face shape, like a diamond/inverted triangle. But she doesn’t seem to have the best tongue posture as she has a pretty narrow arch and high palate, and recently had her wisdom teeth removed. She also doesn’t have very prominent frontal cheekbones, has quite sunken eyes/eyebags/dark circles and has quite close set eyes, but from a 3/4 view, her side cheekbone (?) Volume is quite prominent/forward.
        Seems to me that her masseter muscles are very strong, and sufficent enough to support most of the maxilla therefore preventing a lot of collapse, (like cp mentioned about someone else previously) while also affecting the side cheek/cheekbone volume and also giving her a very defined jawline, but her tongue posture is lacking, resulting in the narrow high arched palate/upper jaw and some relatively minor downswing of the maxilla. (as her jaw’s gonial angle is quite large and her nose is slightly ‘longer’ instead of short and buttony like on people with more forward maxillas).

        Any thoughts?

        1. I found some of her older photos and she definitely has been damaged by poor orthodontics and wisdom teeth removal. Face got longer and sunken in.

          I mean if you go on google and search for something like ‘ariane grande 2011’ and find some of those pictures you will see that she looks like a completely different person.

          But as far as how her face looks now, yeah the jaw itself is still nice and long but her face is very flat and lacking any real volume or support even though from the side view it looks like she has good forward development like you said. It just means genetically that she had such potential to be even better but it was stolen from her by orthodontists.

          To be very very honest I don’t find her attractive, and I don’t really get the appeal either, but its interesting to see what kind of facial development is acceptable in our celebrities these days.

          1. Actually as far as I’m aware, she’s never had extraction orthodontics/braces etc. Except recent wisdom teeth removal, and a few years ago became vegan and lost quite a bit of weight, but I do agree with you in that she does look very different structurally.

            Do you think habits such as singing affect facial development too? Since professional singers will obviously sing a lot, and singing requires your jaw to be open and your tongue away from the roof of your mouth for long periods of time, perhaps influencing direction of gowth, maybe that could explain her down growth? Not sure, but it’s interesting to see how different factors manifest into the unique shapes of people’s faces.

            As for the appeal I’m not too sure either, I think she’s cute but not really noteworthily so, could be the way she’s marketed, with the ‘attractive but legal teenager’ look, and mostly that she’s a very talented young singer.

          2. Well we have to make a distinction here. Let me make it clear that you do not need to have extractions in order to have your face damaged by braces.

            From what I can find online, and there are pictures, she went through traditional braces (non self-ligating type). These alone pull downwards on the face as the front weaker teeth are pulled down and back towards the strong thick teeth. Couple this with elastics that most orthodontists use (but not all I admit) which pull down and back, and you have a recipe for retraction even without extractions. So I meant what I said earlier and I stand by it 100%.

            Now you raised an interesting point about singing affecting the face. No, I don’t think that the act of opening the mouth to talk/sing would matter, I know many singers with amazing facial structures. In fact, my theory (with no evidence of course) is that singing actually HELPS the face look better because you are using those muscles more and you are resonating the entire bone structure which would help it to develop and grow into something beautiful.

  13. Guys I thought of an invention that might work to push the maxilla up into the face. I literally typed a fucking 1500 essay on my phone in the comments section but the anti-spam password thing that I typed in correctly didn’t work? And I lost everything. Now I’m seeing if this freaking works before I wast another 30 minutes of my life. Fuck Neymar.

    1. Hey what’s your email? I’d love to talk with you and offer you some great value in regards to your invention. Thanks. Mine is mangoxguava@gmail.com

      When you guys want to chat with me about improving the face just hit me up!

      1. Bobby Liu, you are a 15 year old minor and you are going to offer great value in regards to other peoples ideas??? Are you really Neymar? C’mon, come clean.

    2. Me too, I have lost lots of comments. I wanted to share successful results. lots of folks have tongue tie that they don’t know they have and that’s why they don’t see results. Everybody has different circumstance and one solution for everyone seems incredulous.

      1. Hey Catoo,

        Glad to see your comments finally got through. Hope you are still around. I am aware of a possible tongue tie issue in myself due to the fact that my mother always talks about how hard I was to breastfeed. I also do remember reading about tongue tie issues on this very website back when CP posted about that lady who had some good facial changes.

        But I looked at my frenulum and even had and orthotropic orthodontist look at my frenulum and it didn’t look that bad, but based on your comments I will go get it checked out by a specialist. I actually live near someone who people fly from all over to see in order to get the tongue tie lasered away so I will see what he says. I’ll update you guys if it’s a big deal.

        1. A, there is still a possibility that you can have tongue tie. My daughter has a severe tie that is covered that you can’t visibly see. She is also scheduled to have it lasered by a frenulum specialist that we are travelling 2 hrs to see. Due to the tongue tie she has done cranial sacral therapy before and after surgery. And months of myofunctional therapy.


          This video is of Dr. Hangs patient after a frenectomy. There is so much tension in all the tissue in the neck, back all the way into the lower back. It’s all through soft tissue. Kids get tongue tie release but without all the soft tissue work you won’t get all the benefit that this woman in Dr. hangs video experienced. And alot grow back without the proper exercises performed after surgery to keep the frenulum separated.

          1. Hi Catoo,

            What is the soft tissue work you are referring to?

            I just had a frenectomy for posterior tongue tie and would like to maximise the benefit.

  14. Wow, just in case anyone got stuck like I did by something so stupid, the log-in button on the top of the page doesn’t work but the one on the right hand side of the page does.

    Also I think that posting a comment without an account doesn’t work either but that doesn’t affect me.

  15. Bruh. The landing page for your payment system is down. I’ve been trying to purchase member ship for the past hour. Please update me when this is fixed.


  16. I still see an option to cancel under “Account -> Purchases” Then scroll down and hit “cancel this subscription”.

    Obviously the site is going through some changes. New layout looks sick btw, I like it a lot.

  17. Where can I got for treatments like this in Sydney? I have already had braces once before and been to a few different places and I am told just to get braces again even though they didnt work the first time. My palates are very narrow and I have a long thin face with hollow cheeks. I get a lot of pain in my jaw underneath my ears and at the back of my head and down my neck. My lips do not close easily and I seem to grind my teeth from years of trying to keep my jaw closed. I just dont know where to start with finding treatment in Sydney, it seems the choices are so overwhelming and all orthodontists seem to have very strong opions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  18. Alright this post is going to be very controversial, but if I am right this is very important.

    I believe that forcefully pushing the posterior portion of the tongue up and falim gum chewing both lengthen the face over time. Let me explain.

    At least the way I do it, forcing the posterior portion of the tongue up creates a bit of strain/pressure in my facial muscles and around my jaw. I realized after looking at some pictures from when I started this to now that my face is actually longer. If every action has an equal an opposite reaction, then the act of pushing up with the back of the tongue forcefully (which I did in an attempt to squash my face) actually creates just as large a force pushing your jaw downwards. I also noticed that it makes my face tight, which would actually push the maxilla backwards over time as well, because the maxilla can’t move forwards against tight muscles. Your face has to be super relaxed. So I’ve stopped forcing my tongue up against my palate and now I just let it sit there EFFORTLESSLY. The main muscles I use now are my jaw muscles to keep my teeth together; the tongue just creates a seal against my upper palate without any effort at all. I still push swallow too, but I do it effortlessly. No more forcing and straining. I’ve already noticed benefits from doing this as far as facial height is concerned. And so my main point is that I believe the main factor for squashing the face is your jaw. I actually have pictures of myself from 4 years ago where I went from a long face to a short square face with cheekbones just from using my jaw because I didn’t know about this tongue stuff back then obviously (I was actually surprised when I found those pictures, I never knew I had good facial looks at one point). My face is long again now though because I had open mouth posture for a few years due to an issue, that’s why i’m here.

    Back to the point – don’t get me wrong, I still practice great tongue posture, and I still got great benefits from it like more symmetry, wider face, etc, but it was lengthening my face over time because I was using lots of force against my palate thinking I was doing something good. I wasn’t.

    Next up is the falim gum, and why I think it is bad too. So yes, it does give your jaw muscles a nice workout and make them stronger, but there is a cost here. The problem with chewing falim gum is that when you chew it (at least the amount I use) your jaw never fully closes, and your teeth never come into contact. This means that the back of your jaw will slowly lengthen as you chew this gum. When you chew, it is good to have your teeth touching because all the downward force goes straight into your bottom teeth and jaw bone, making it bigger. If your teeth don’t close, the downward force can transfer to your back jaw area and push it down, making the face longer. Therefore it is better to chew things that let your teeth close against each other like crunchy vegetables, meats, chewy breads, etc. And if you want maximum face squashing action, make sure to chew in the manliest way possible by squeezing your jaw right when your teeth close together.

    Like I said, I made my face super short like 4 years ago without knowing any of this stuff just eating regular food and using my jaw probably because I clenched it when I exercised (rock climbed 3x a week and did stronglifts). The jaw is the main factor imo, tongue plays a role too but you can’t force it.


    I just have a few last random notes to add to this post. One is that I found a way to make white rice better for jaw muscles. There is a way of cooking it in which you make the bottom layer turn into a brown crust that my culture calls tahdig. It’s like a crust almost and very chewy, I recommend it. I advise against eating brown rice, it’s bad for your health.

    The next thing I noticed is that you have to be very careful which camera you use when you take pictures of your face. I found out that both my iphone front facing camera and my thinkpad t520 camera distort nearby images, which can make the face look longer than it actually is. This is a well known issue based on google searches.

    Second to last idea is I wonder what the effect of smiling is on the maxilla/cheekbones?

    And the last idea is that I believe that thumb sucking is the evolutionary equivalent to the maxilla method. I think that forcing kids to stop is bad for them, they are literally face pulling by instinct. I used to suck my thumb when I was young and my crooked teeth fixed themselves once I stopped. So the issue of dental problems from it is probably overblown. I’ve actually been experimenting with using my thumb to pull on my palate by hooking it behind my upper teeth and it seems to be doing something, but it’s too early to say for sure.

    1. Do the smile technique that was described for proper swallowing. Smile (not only horizontally but also diagonal upwards, your cheekcs stand more out, your eyes might be thinner and so) => swallow=> relax your face while keeping your tongue on the roof of your mouth

      This facial resting position should feel different. For example your palate feels wider, your lower back teeth feel more aligned with your upper back teeth, the bones of the sides of your cheeks are like merging to the side and up.

      Imagine a cord is on the back part of your tongue that touches the palate and that cord pulls you up and holds you straight, at the same time do very gentle effort to somewhat hold your chin down but it should be done by feeling the neck.

      Also imagine that you are smiling while in reality you can change your mouth a bit, the corners of your mouth form a gentle really small smile or you can imagine it but eve if you only imagine it will still happen for a microscip change and feel how your mood is enhanced at once + this gentle smile helps you to keep the proper and relaxed facial position. Go back to the wide smile every now and then to re-align your face and posture. Sometimes also stretch completely your mouth by opening your mouth as much as you can (lower back teeth not forward but more to the face) and feeling more the back of your mouth opening and throat.

      1. Great post and advice. I really like the microsmile technique you pointed out. It does lift my mood and also I think this slight use of the muscles will help bring up the cheekbones over time.

        But my tongue is in the same position as before, I had that part right – not the microsmile though, that’s new and I will be using that from now on.

        As far as the tongue and what I meant earlier, so once it is in the right position, now use every bit of force you can to push it up against the palate as hard as you can. That’s what I was doing. I did that to try and push my maxilla up using my tongue. This was where I accidentally lengthened my face and now I know better. I’m just going to let it rest lightly on there with the microsmile and check in a few months to see how that worked.

        1. I see what you mean.

          This is a post for everyone. I have written it very quickly, I do hope it is clear.

          From my perspective there is a difference between non-optimal facial rest with pushing tongue (that might cause face lenghthening) and optimal facial rest with pushing tongue.

          With the optimal facial rest and pushing tongue it feels different and I really feel it will widen your face and move it up and forward.

          One of the big difference between both is that with the non-optimal your jaw is not a strong base, it feels somewhat lose, also it is too down; it is not enough to the side and back in your face.

          Try making a really bad open mouth face position with head forward and put your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Now push with your tongue, feel how it is. Now take a good posture, widen your smile/mouth to the sides and diagonal up with cheeks out and closer to eyes and lower jaw back in the face; lower back teeth close to upper back teeth; that is important! To feel the difference do another trick: open your mouth fully as much as you can. You see you are probably trying to open your mouth fully, of course that’s what I told you 🙂 but now still with mouth fully open, try to open to the back of your mouth and throat fully, tongue will be pushed down, palate and back sides of mouth should feel like it is being stretched. The more you push the back of the tongue down the more you feel a stretch. The front part of your mouth, your lips can even become narrower as the back part become wider. To achieve the widest back part, which is the optimal bite/speak/opening of the mouth in general position, your lower back teeth have to be closer to your upper back teeth.

          When opening your mouth fully in an optimal way, even though the tongue is down and back now, the pressure, openness and aliveness resembles the one when your mouth is closed in an optimal way, even though now the tongue is on the roof but it is still back! It is not down and back it is up and back. It is part of the whole anchor point, from feet to shoulders (put shoulders up, then back, then let the drop on proper place) to tongue to top of the head.

          The tongue should not push on the roof, although it can some of the time if you want to put more pressure to get the feel of it. Sometimes it is good to exagerate to feel what we are doing normally. If you feel that by putting pressure on your roof you are pushing your face down then you do not have proper facial resting position. It is not so much the front/mid tongue that pushes either, it is the jaw, the back and down side of the tongue (which is attached to the chin if I remember and so on I would have to search for it but I usually prefer to FEEL things, you are your own master!), even more so my neck, throat and adam’s apple that are putting pressure on the roof, you whole body is one block. That is when you are putting pressure to know where forces are applying with your current whole body positioning; in general you should not put pressure, but you will feel that your face (and of course your posture) is being worked on; like your cheekbones and jaw are getting wider, there is that feeling their bones, your palate feels flatter,..

          Other exercise: push with middle part of the tongue on your roof, sides of the tongue a bit loose and lower jaw also loose; that is what most do all the time in a less exaggerated way. Now smile wide and let the tongue naturally move back sliding on your roof, your tongue gets flatter, your jaw wider, your lower back teeth closer to upper back teeth. It’s the sides of the tongue that are also up against the roof.

          It’s almost like there is pressure on the back side of my jaw like they are widened and strengthened; also everything feels anchored, strong, fixed and relaxed.

          I have written this by feeling what happens inside me. This is not theory that I have learned or read somewhere. My words are pointing to the experience. It’s not the words that matter but the experience to which they point. This post can work like a guide, to help you feel yourself. It’s by feeling that you will create what you want and for this case in particular it is very easy because what we want is also what the body wants. We can also create something the body does not want but that will take more time; a few years of bad mouth breathing and wrong posture for example 🙂

          I believe all of this is very easy. Only you are standing in your own way with your conditioned mind. Start feeling yourself and stop thinking because what you think is a projection of your past; claim your power!

          1. I’ve been reading over your post a few times now and practicing the different postures and something definitely feels different/better. In my midface & sinuses I actually feel a tingling sensation and my entire face (not my head but my face) somehow feels lighter. I think this is definitely pointing me in the right direction. Before I used to feel a strain and a pull which I know now was bad.

            I also used to let my tongue overpower my jaw but now I am letting my jaw be the boss while my tongue just plays a support role. I’m very interested now to see what the results will be like in a few months time and even longer too. Once I start getting some better occlusion I will start working out again and that should speed things up too. I actually have a meeting with Dr. Gibbs in a week so I will see what he has to say as well.

    2. Just wanted to clarify – hope that my post didn’t come off as too alarmist.

      When I mentioned the tongue placement causing face lengthening, I was literally pushing up against my palate as hard as I could with my tongue for hours each day. I’ve since toned that down to a very slight push that feels good.

      With the falim gum I will say that I was chewing 3-4 pieces at a time. Maybe with less pieces your teeth could come closer into contact and it would be the perfect thing to chew, but I can’t test that because my occlusion is off right now and last time I tried that my teeth were hitting in weird places and I don’t want to damage them. I had more luck chewing real food. Maybe that’s just my peculiar situation.

      1. That does clear things up. You spooked me back there with those eventful posts. Thanks. Have you considered saving money to buy Neymar’s product. I’m certain it’s the best option on Earth right now.

        1. Hey Bobby,

          Yeah I have considered it and actually reached out to him based partially on a post you made earlier about talking to him so I want to thank you for that.

          As far as spooking you, I realized that my post may have done that which is why I decided to clarify as soon as possible. Tongue posture and chewing hard/chewy foods is super important, but I took it too far. Hopefully someone can learn from that mistake.

    3. Tell me if this is legit in your opinion..

      If you do lots of hard tongue thrusts up, then there will be multiple reactions back (like he said) but if you forcefully push up for extended periods of time, their won’t be the same reaction. Only after each push. Is this science correct?

      1. No it is incorrect and I will explain why,

        as long as there is a force in one direction, there has to be a counter to that force in the opposite direction because forces always happen in pairs

        Check this video out and see if it helps

        khanacademy DOT org/science/physics/forces-newtons-laws/newtons-laws-of-motion/v/newton-s-third-law-of-motion

  19. Glad it helped.

    For an added benefit you could listen to this if you feel like it. It does way more than the description itself, I know it helps with face move up and forward too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ3rXcatvz8

    Using affirmations also works for anything you want to manifest. Sit on a chair with proper body/face posture. If your tongue is in your airway and it makes a sound when you breath, you can actually use that sound to relax: feel the sound and relax in it, feel your breath. Now start using an affirmation in your mind or aloud such as “beauty” or “my face moves up and forward” or “palate expansion” or “wide dental arches” or “posture” or “I am the master of my life” or “relax” or “breath” or … Use the affirmation every few seconds or much less (I prefer less, like every 20 seconds) and at the same time feel your face and inside your face: right now your body is listening to you and your face is doing what you want. If you want just before sleep use affirmation like “during my sleep my facial beauty and function moves to perfection” and know that it will.

    You can do this with eyes closed or with eyes open. You can also visualise if you want. There are also subliminals that people make. Type something like subliminal beauty on youtube.

    You can also do this while watching a picture of someone with a beautiful face and/or a trait you really like. I even prefer to watch a woman (don’t worry you won’t manifest woman’s traits). I like to affirm in my mind I just want a manly mix of this

    When working out for like a squat or deadlift or overhead press it is indead you whole body, neck and jaw that presses on your palate through the tongue but also the sides of the tongue on the sides of the roof.

    I wish you well

  20. Nice info, A and FromNow. I find that the microsmile technique makes my nose flare up like an angry bull; in a good way, like the whole area is getting pushed. Do either of you feel the same thing?

    Depending on how much it costs, I think I’m pretty much won over on buying Neymar’s method. (also assuming he’s still selling it as of now or in the near future)

    However, I do have a bit of a problem. An oral surgeon where I live needs a referral from a dentist in order to implant anchorage devices or anything along those lines. That’s to be expected, and I plan on talking with my dentist to see if he can approve me for surgery, assuming I can buy the necessary info so my face isn’t blindly punctured and ruined [further].

    My issue is that I am terrible at talking to people, especially any type of doctor when I need to get something like medication or a preferred way of treatment. No matter how knowledgable I feel I am about what I’m trying to say, the doctors can usually say one thing I disagree with and I immediately lose the ability to articulate any counter because I suck at debating or coming up with what to say on the spot. This usually results in me stuttering out a “yeah, I guess you’re right” type of response and leaving dissatisfied.

    In my head, I know what I want to say – retractive orthodontics set my jaws back, resulting in: my face being pulled down, becoming uglier, mouth breathing still encouraged, and my lifelong difficulty with swallowing food remaining unchanged (I swear my orthodontist said something about my overbite/jet causing it, even though I now know it’s not related to teeth).
    I’ve also had asthma for most of my life, probably because my airway isn’t wide enough. Thus, I want to protract my maxilla upwards and outwards for both health and cosmetic reasons.

    Because I would be seeing a dentist and not an orthodontist, I’m concerned that he wouldn’t know about what I’m trying to do, or he’d outright deny that orthodontic work can have negative results, and I want to be prepared enough to present my case properly. After all, it seems like quite the chain of command when the oral surgeon does not yet know what the exact steps to take are, I don’t know either, and seeing him requires having to make enough of a point to another dentist where I can eventually say to him “I’ll be paying someone on the internet for the rest of the information” without being shown the door or being laughed at. My preference would be to talk with him before buying Neymar’s method just so I could have the referral note confirmed before taking the plunge, as opposed to paying however much for the info and then “oops, nobody around here will refer me, guess I’m out X dollars”.

    I called the dental office earlier just to see if I could see the main doctor in person about getting a referral, and it is possible, although the receptionist had no idea what I meant when talking about anchorage devices/TADs, and I had to give a half-assed explanation about what they’d be used for even though I don’t even know if that’s what the maxilla method surgery is or how they’d be specifically used for protraction. I figured I should ask around here before proceeding so I don’t sound clueless in person, even though I’ve been really interested in this stuff for several months.

    Apologies for the huge “my own personal blog” post, but if there’s anything I could mention to the dentist that may help him understand or agree with this concept, that’d be great. My orthodontist actually recommended jaw surgery 3/4 of the way into my treatment, if that helps legitimize wanting a similar thing now. I’m also the uglier brother of a set of twins, maybe a comparison photo would be useful.


    1. Hey zack, you’re a patient of Dr. Mew’s right? Maybe you should have him as your reference and have him talk to the surgeon for you. Or maybe he could explain to the dentist (or you) exactly what it is that you need so there are no questions. I know how you feel I suck at debating especially when someone says something I didn’t think of…then I just freeze up haha. Anyways good luck to you man!

      1. Thanks for the response, JSPO. I’m not a patient of Dr. Mew – I’m from Canada and the travel costs would cripple my savings quite quickly. My brother sent him an email asking what he should tell his own dentist regarding a referral, if he were to try any type of protraction method himself, so I figured I should ask here. Perhaps I will also email Mike about what to say, since I probably have an easier chance of approval than my brother due to wanting to reverse orthodontic work. If he gets too many inquiries to reply, maybe Dr. Hang, although he seems like a mixed bag from people on this site. I’m sure there’s a way to decently get a point across to somebody who may not be familiar with the tropic premise without having to bring in my own slideshow presentation.

        It’s nice you can relate, isn’t it terrible? I remember pestering my orthodontist in my usual unconfident/monotone voice to listen to my suggestions, and it’s a lot harder to get through to anybody when speaking with zero conviction or backbone when challenged. After 2.5 years of trying to close my bite, I was put in a set of clear retainers (the mouthguard-looking ones, the brand name should be FaceLengthener) for another 18 months which opened it again until I was finally given the wired retainer. I did say on multiple occasions that my jaws wouldn’t close properly and my overjet was coming back, but being inept at speaking up and not being demanding enough was my own fault. A lesson learned, I guess.

        1. Hey so is it a universal opinion on this site that going to see Mike Mew for treatment is the best course of action in regards to palate expansion and fixing asymmetries; also enhancing aesthetics?

          Right now he says on his site in a video he posted in March that he isn’t taking on any adult patients for another 6 months (Mid-August).

          So would it be best to not pursue treatment (palate expansion) in North America/US and just wait 4 months and go fly over to see Mike Mew?

          I have the money if necessary to fly back and forth to him as much as whats needed, but I will probably end up staying in a hotel or something similar near mikes office if he requires to see me very frequently.

          I’m just confused… why should I pursue treatment her in the U.S. if I can just go see Mike in London? Is my thinking eschewed by believing that this is the best option… to just wait and see him?

          – Thanks

          1. I do not understand what the major difference between Neymar’s device, and what others have been doing for face pulling? I’m not seeing much of a difference. Does anyone have any information stating the differences between the two?

          2. No, I think the consensus on this site right now is that the maxilla method is probably the best way to go. I can’t say for sure since I haven’t tried it, but CP himself said to hold off on ortho because something better might be coming soon. I’m pretty sure he is referring to what Neymar is doing.

            You should probably contact Neymar and see what he says for you. If you have tons of money it wouldn’t hurt to see an orthotropic orthodontist too I guess. I’m going out to see Dr. Gibbs from Michigan on Friday to see what he says as far as my airway and teeth and all that.

            But I have a feeling that biobloc might be old news already. Just a hunch. I’m still trying to figure all of this out too so don’t take anything I say as gospel. Reach out to people via email and see what you can find.

    2. Hey Zack,

      When I do the microsmile, I am able to do it without my nose flaring up, but when I do flare the nose it feels pretty good too.

      As far as your situation with having to get a referral, i’d say that your difficulties in being able to get the referral come from a lack of confidence overall, which could come from many factors, but there are some steps you can take to make yourself more assertive within 1-2 weeks. I will give you these tips because they have helped me. They are controversial but they work.

      But first, I will say that yeah it seems like a good idea to get a referral before ponying up the cash just so you don’t lose money. When explaining it to the dentist just keep it brief, don’t try and teach them something that they can’t learn, instead just say you would like a referral to an oral surgeon to have some devices implanted in order to help with your orthodontic treatment. Then if they ask questions you can answer them one by one. The more you talk the more you will confuse them because it is all brand new, so talk as little as possible ok?

      Now as far as how to make yourself more assertive here is what you have to do. It is going to be controversial like I said but I guarantee 100,000% that it works.

      You have to spend less time near technology/computers/internet, and you have to stop using porn altogether. This is what will allow your brain to rewire into a brain that is more assertive/confident/dominant. Yes you will get gains from fixing your maxilla too, but this will help in the meantime. It is claimingbrain. Do this stuff and you will feel a difference. Give yourself 1-2 weeks like I said.

      While you are doing that, every day go out and talk to someone that you normally wouldn’t. Go inside stores and talk to sales people just to do so. This will lube up your social gears. Once you have some practice and you feel better and stronger socially, then go meet with the dentists. And not just one. Don’t hang it all on just one person. Line up like 6 appointments in a row. This way you won’t seem desperate. In the back of your mind you will know that if this one fails, you have 5 more to go, etc.

      This will work for you. Please try it.

      About Dr. Hang, he is a very smart guy and he ‘gets it’. He understands the damage of retractive orthodontics and he even told me that my before & after pictures made him want to cry. I like him a lot. But he is very set in his way and stubborn and I don’t think he will give out a referral for this or be willing to try new things because of the risk involved.

      Let me know how things go.

      1. Well my plan was to go see Mike Mew in London and get treatment with him and then contact Neymar about pursuing his method. I want the best of both worlds to be honest.

        1. Hey SuicideSoon, I have seen Mike Mew multiple times over the past 6 years – he is still yet to treat me – What I gained from the visits was false hope, waste of time, and a waste of hundreds of pounds in consultation fees.

          Mike Mew is not the only ortho-professional with a “ClaimingPower approach” and his BioBloc appliances are NOT the only appliances available to expand ones palate towards a “ClaimingPower finish”.

          I am going to make a separate comment after this reply post to elaborate much more on this issue as it deserves a comment & discussion on its own for the benefit of this sites users.

        2. Also @ SuicideSoon – I forgot to mention please do not fly to uk just to see Mike Mew – there are many other professionals capable of providing the same if not better results.

        3. Yeah, if money isn’t an issue you should probably hit up neymar first and then go out and see mike mew when/if you can and then decide for yourself what to do.

        4. Suicide Soon, save your time and money. Go to an oral surgeon for a diagnosis of posterior tongue tie. If you have it and get a simple procedure to release it, your tongue will do all the work necessary to provide an open airway and the best look you can have for you at a fraction of the cost of expanders.

      2. What kinds of treatment are you getting from Dr. Hang? I’m considering seeing him near the end of the year. Any advice or comments about him would be great.

        1. I decided not to go with Dr. Hang for treatment just based on my own preferences of wanting to have some input into how I am treated. If you go with him you will be in good hands but you will have to do things his way. That is the feeling I got from him. I had no doubts that he could help me though.

          My suggestion to you is to reach out to him via email and set up a phone/skype consult and see what he says for you. Take it one step at a time and you can plot your course as you go and learn.

  21. Thanks a lot for your efforts CP. I’ve been following this blog since last January with great interest. I’ve read every relevant post and come here daily to check for new comments.

    Like many of you, I was put on retractive orthodontics for half a decade as a kid. For most of that time I wore headgear every night (http://www.kavanaughortho.com/portals/0/headgear-photo.jpg this kind. Such an awful, awful appliance).

    Now at the age of 24, my upper canines have very visible caps on both side of them, my cheekbones are sunken, my lower chin isn’t as forward as it should be and no wisdom teeth ever appeared. I also have slightly asymmetrical upper and lower jaws from poor mouth posture. Both of them are hanging from different side than the other, in that kind of a way that makes the (exaggerated) front view of my teethline look like this symbol: > where the lines are my upper and lower dental arches

    Since learning about potential side effects a retracted maxilla may cause, I’ve been trying to figure out ways to close those gaps in my teeth and pull my maxilla forwards myself. I’m unemployed and have no money to spare for professional help, so in addition to basic Mewing I’ve self-studied a lot and brainstormed various DIY approaches.

    Over a bunch of trial and error (mostly error) I ended up with this kind of primitive “appliance”: http://i.imgur.com/QiKAmtP.png

    I’ve only been using it for a couple of nights, but I can already feel the effect it has on my bite. Once the gaps begin to close, I plan on routing the inner side of the rubber band through different pairs of teeth and varying the spoon’s width in order to fine tune the direction of the pull. Currently it goes through behind my canines like shown in the above pic, pulling the molars forward and a little to the sides. The concave shape of a spoon combined with the matchbox on my chin seems to help in keeping jaws close to each other at night too.

    So now I have a question: as far as I know, the counter forces generated from this type of pull shouldn’t be damaging to nose and chin, since nose is mostly cartilage and chin is much denser bone and therefore less malleable than maxilla. Am I right to assume this, or is my nose or chin going to collapse over time if I continue doing this?

    1. I’m no longer doing this, since the bands started to irritate my gums.

      However, I finally perfected my mewing technique, and have gotten more results in a few nights and days than three months of facepulling and incorrect mewing combined.

      The key is to find a position that supports both your tongue and jaws and helps to keep the correct posture even when asleep. You should be able to keep the tongue on the palate and jaws shut despite fully relaxing every muscle in your body. They essentially counter forces to each other like a pair of cards leaning against each other when building a card house.

      To get a feel for it, bite back- and upwards so that the upper and lower molars lock together firmle, as if you’re ripping a piece of very tough meat from a carcass or sucking a massive nipple with your tongue. Assist this force with a counterforce from the tongue, gently pushing it towards its palate in the direction of the base of the nose. Cram the sides of the posterior tongue to the spaces behind the last teeth of the upper and lower dental arches, near where the jawbones fuse together.

      If done right, you should now be able to:
      1) relax the whole tongue forwards, anchoring it on the roof of your mouth and the back of your dental arches, generating enough force to keep the jaws locked with the tongue’s own gravity.

      2) Feel the lower molars getting pulled forwards (you can get a feel for this by using mandible to bite upwards and backwards, or “towards the eyes”), effectively causing the lower dental arch to widen over time

      3) Feel an effortless pull all the way down to the Adam’s apple. If not, your tongue is not fully relaxed.

      I’ve also started to sleep on my back without a pillow, like someone recommended. I believe it’s helpful in keeping the correct posture at night.

      1. Whatever I’m doing might be similar to you. I used to apply manual hard force with the front of the tongue to my palette, but stopped and became more relaxed. Now I am constantly suppressing gags because it feels like the rest of my tongue is sitting in my throat; probably the Adam’s apple region. I don’t feel any facial effects from that or anything, but the fact that the tongue is doing its thing back there effortlessly is nice. Does what I’m doing sound similar?

        1. I’ve never been one to gag easily, but I believe that if i was, the way I’m doing it could feel a little uncomfortable. Especially if you have a receded chin or midface like I do. For me it only feels like my airways become narrower than usual and my breath becomes a little more audible.

          I believe you will see changes when you’re doing it correctly for the first time in your life. But like Mew says, the changes are slow. So far I’ve mostly felt it in the increased surface area in the backs of my upper front teeth I’ve been able to feel with the tip of my tongue when the jaws are shut together (caused by maxilla rotating upwards). If this trend continues, I will be able to see clear structural changes in before / after photos in a month or two.

          1. I think the best way I could explain what I’m doing is I think of my tongue lifting up back there and it’ll happen; after that, I don’t have to do anything, so if it were incorrect, I am unsure I’d be able to alter it since it’s not a position I am manually assuming.

            Yeah, it’s not like you’re going to get your tongue up and then wake up the next night chiseled out of stone, but I think it’s quite likely that repeating the belief “It’ll take a very long time” to yourself repeatedly is also a form of self sabotage, albeit unconsciously. Someone who notices and emphasizes results is obviously on a faster track than someone who is looking to prove to themselves nothing is working. Just something to ponder I guess.

            I feel pretty confident that changes are being made too – my eyes are more narrow and a bit farther apart, my cheekbones are coming out, my tongue stays up and my mouth is shut pretty much all day, etc. Any chance you’ll post the pics on here? It’d be great to see someone elses results.

            Any chance you chew the gum too?

  22. I feel obliged to comment on here as there is too much of a belief on here by members & also the Author that because the BioBloc Expander allows the host to keep there tongue in the palate whilst wearing the appliance this equates to the BioBloc appliance being monumentally superior to all other expanders and the only appliance to use – THIS IS FALSE!

    The function & intention of most palatal expanders is to provide an outwards force from within the Maxilla(a force which the Tongue was and always is intended to provide if in its correct position) – THEREFORE if ANY expander appliance is present in ones mouth the expander will be providing the force needed for the time being which means it makes very little difference as to whether your tongue is up in the palate or not(the only slight difference worth mentioning is that the tongue could provide an upwards force, but this could still be achieved with MANY appliances not just BioBloc.)

    The quality needed from an expander with a “ClaimingPower goals” in mind is any expander which provides a force causing both the Intermaxillary Suture and the Premaxillary Suture(AKA The Incisive Suture) to open and remain open thereby allowing a widening to occur and new bone to grow, fill, and stabilize over time – “ClaimingPower” himself mentioned the DNA Appliance, this appliance is one of many appliances that’s perfectly adequate and within reach to many of you.

    However after any Expansion appliance is removed its VERY important that correct tongue posture is then practiced – the tongue must then provide the force.

    It would be great to see more DIY-type approaches like neymarjr within the expansion area and also in general as its evident from many users comments that the hold the Ortho-Professionals have on us is BRUTAL.

    1. Yes the profession does have too much of a hold on us but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

      Did you personally get results with DNA appliance?

  23. I just wanted to update you guys on how my meeting with Dr. Gibbs went so that other people can make a better decision if they are in the same situation as me.

    When we met we had some small talk about Grand Rapids as a city, and I chatted with the nurse a bit too; it was all very relaxed and comfortable – no stress. He took some measurements of my face and teeth and whatnot.

    At this point he told me I had a retruded maxilla, a concave face, missing teeth, midlines that are off, etc, etc: all the things I suspected already from reading this blog – but it was good to have a professional back my intuition up.

    But what he suggested next was shocking. He told me that to fix my problem we could grind down all of my front teeth and then put crowns on all of my back teeth.

    I told him no.

    Then he pulled out the biobloc briefcase that he has and showed me it and said “I can’t guarantee anything” which I already knew, but at this point he already lost me based on what he said earlier. He also said that “Long distance ortho is hard on both of us.” I think he didn’t want to do it.

    We then talked about some other things like the possibility of just solving everything using light wire braces and elastics to pull things around which any ortho could do (he said this himself and I agreed. He was also open to consulting with the ortho I chose as my treatment went along). Then we talked about his previous biobloc cases for a bit and about nutrition, weston price, arch sizes in eskimos, etc.

    It pains me to write this because he was a great person and was very easy going and fun to talk to, but I would rather pull all of my teeth and use dentures for the rest of my life than to do what his first suggestion was. I also got the feeling that he is kind of ready to retire for real.

    On to the next step.

  24. This likely isn’t the right place to post, but it’s the only article with regular comments. When doing the tongue posture lately, I find my tongue pushing against my bottom teeth, pretty much no matter what I do. Does anyone else have this issue?

    1. You mean pressing against where your teeth would chew food with? That could be a problem in the long term, it might cause an open bite. If you can, try folding your tongue in half and then unfolding it when it is against your palate.. that is what I do and it works. It’s not ideal but I feel more and more of my tongue fitting over time. I also slide it back sometimes so that the narrower part of the tongue is between the back teeth.

      1. It’s never an issue when I eat, it’s just always hard to find comfortable resting posture because I think I have a narrow palette (likely due to what I think is a swollen incisive papilla that I’ve had for a year). The tongue posture is getting easier all the time and I have great muscle tone thanks to the gum, so the issue lies elsewhere.

        Yeah, I end up retracting my tongue a bit so it can fit, though for some reason in the evening, it’s like my whole mouth decides there’s not enough room and there’s not really anywhere I can put my tongue.

        I had what I call a demon dog smile for the past year (it looks like an angry snarl), but it mysteriously resolved in the past 24 hours, but the tongue thing hasn’t. Anyways, the tongue posture and gum combination is getting pretty killer results so far.

        1. Alright I am starting to chew the gum again but this time way less than before, just a little at a time. Before I used to chew enough at a time that it was the size of … idk… a date? (the fruit) even when chewed up. That was probably too much. Now I am chewing the same amount as probably a stick of store bought gum. I’ll update how it goes in a month or so when I know.

          1. Quick update that I can already give after a few days. I am chewing the mastic gum again, only one small crystal at a time (instead of 4-5 like I was doing), and I am chewing it very very slowly and deliberately, trying to get my teeth as close together as possible. Follow through.

            Doing this I already see my occlusion getting better and my face getting tighter/shorter after each session (dunno if permanent).

            I will continue like this and see what happens. I’m starting to realize how important the details are and how powerful all of this information is.

          2. Thanks for the update, I will try your chewing method. I was taking some new pics of myself today to see if I was making any progress – I think I am making some progress, though maybe not as much as I imagined, then again the pics I am comparing are only 5 weeks apart.

            I wasn’t very successful in getting my hair to stay out of the way, so I might as well ask if you’d want to see a before/after before I waste time uploading a picture that isn’t perfect. Do you want me to link it?

          3. Yeah if you are fine with putting your face on the internet then link it, or you can email it, either is fine

          4. A – Alright, here it is (be kind lol) https://gyazo.com/a3299d25d14c58df0335aa42ce7c8ca3

            The things I notice are:
            – my eyes are more narrow; you can tell because my eyebrows are still in the same position

            – my nose might have changed a bit; the lighting is a bit different, but you can still make out the shape of it and it looked fatter before

            – face is definitely wider and cheekbones more prominent

            It seems to be a pretty big change when comparing only May 4th to June 11th.

          5. Holy hell man, those are amazing changes. Especially in such a short time frame. Some people would kill to get those results through plastic surgery.

            I’ll tell you what I see:

            First of all, just more photogenic in general. You used to have a borderline ‘melting’ face but now your face looks secure.

            Your eyes look more focused and determined. You look somewhat lost in the before pic, now you seem more confident of yourself. So your face and mindset both seem to be changing.

            Your nose looks ‘stronger’. I can’t tell but the nostrils look like they opened up a bit. Your lips seem a touch wider and fuller. Cheekbones absolutely wider.

            I also think there is more symmetry but you could just be holding your head more upright, that in and of itself is still a positive change.

            All in all amazing changes for just 1 month. Are you just doing mewing and gum chewing?

          6. **This comment is very long**

            Thanks man! Yeah, in the past when I’d take webcam photos of myself, I’d be surprised how I’d make a “blinded by the light” face or an emo type of scowl, neither of which were intentional.

            In the before photo, I had been chewing gum an hour a day or more for maybe 2 weeks, but I didn’t do anything else. I ran out of gum shortly after the before photo and didn’t get anymore until May 31st, so my posture changes didn’t start til then either. So really the before/after pics are between 2 or 3 weeks of actual work.

            Here’s my regiment:

            Between 1 and 2 hours of gum chewing a day. I did your slow chew method yesterday and was able to flash an extremely wide smile that looked pretty decent afterwards – thanks for the tip.

            Tongue is on the roof of my mouth all day and I can assume all night, as I wake up with it like that. The posterior tongue is a bit of a mystery, as I can feel more weight/force back there, but when it feels like a very loud and big gulp, I ease off because it’s very uncomfortable.

            In the last 2 weeks or so, I’ve adapted the push swallow, so I’m doing that all the time and am constantly feeling my cheeks to make sure nothing is moving.

            I’ve changed my head posture, so when I’m on the computer, my head isn’t slumped over; I try and lift my chin up so there’s an imaginary straight line coming out towards the screen. This has also improved my spine posture a lot, which was horrible before.

            My twin brother was trying to show me the chin tuck posture, which seems unmanageable. I find it a bit hard to believe anyone maintains that posture unconsciously.

            Teeth are in contact all the time, though I don’t think that was much of an issue before.

            (now into the things which may indirectly be helping)

            In the past month, I’ve become quite dedicated to skin care, so I use whitening cream, moisturizer, etc. on my face daily. The photo I attached didn’t have good enough lighting to pick up the many freckles, dark circles, and other marks I had on my face before, but they’ve all lightened to a dramatic degree, except for what looks like broken blood vessels in the crease of my eyes (I think that may be due to maxilla falling?). I think it’s been helpful doing this because having to look in the mirror everyday and seeing my skin get better is also helping grow the idea that I look good.

            I started doing a stretching regiment a couple of days ago where I spend between 15-30 minutes a day increasing my flexibility. I’ve already seen vast improvements in just 4 days, which the idea of having a more toned body and in general just better health may be feeding into the other ideas and vice versa.

            I’m pretty sure this is the last thing I do – I stopped defending negativity. I had been on the “spiritual” journey for years, which was useless because it became so convoluted with esoteric nonsense, all the while doing nothing to help. I’ve spent the last 2 months just deepening in awareness of all the negative patterns in my mind, so there has become an automatic disassociation with stuff like “Your face is never going to look any better”, “You’re never going to look how you want”, etc.

            Most people automatically think that whatever their thoughts say is true and then either get in a fight to try and prove them wrong or try and run away from them. It’s easy to see that the people we envy or admire like a popular extrovert simply has different beliefs about himself that were formed, whether through societal acceptance or some other method, but the way they live life and what happens to them is because of the beliefs they take to be true.

            Someone mired in pessimism can’t get very good results in anything, because they’re looking through the point of view of being a failure and never achieving anything, so how could they ever get anywhere?

            Just a relaxed disassociation is all it takes to get the ball rolling, there’s no need to try and argue with yourself “No, I’m hot!”. Though I haven’t experienced positive beliefs becoming ingrained yet, I can feel a ton of negativity slowly withering away, though it will take time because of how much attention I gave those ideas for so many years.

            To anyone else who’s reading this, it’d be cool if other people would document their progress too.

          7. Oh yeah, and today I started taking calcium supplements. I’m taking calcium gummies as well as regular calcium pills, so total that is 900mg of calcium a day, which is around the required daily amount.

            I used to drink milk all the time when growing up, but I haven’t in years and the only yogurt I eat are ones for kids, so my usual calcium intake is extremely low.

            Apparently healthier bone is more pliable, so I will take another pic on June 25th or so. A pic every 2 weeks will be better to see if any subtle changes have occurred.

          8. Sounds like you are putting in hard work to improve both body and mind, and it is clearly paying off. Great stuff.

            The mindset stuff is really important too I agree. I try to stay as confident in myself as possible at all times and to this end I have tried to seek out everything in life that helps me feel confident effortlessly. The one major thing I found that helps this is limiting technology and anything that is too stimulating. Somehow this makes me super confident and outgoing.

            As far as calcium and diet, I can actually add a lot of value here because I spent many years (almost a decade) researching this. Yes, healthy bones are more pliable, and a healthy body releases hormones that tell the bones to become pliable (especially in the face). But taking calcium pills won’t help.

            Let me explain.

            In order to have healthy bones, your body needs calcium yes, but it also needs to correct nutrients/vitamins in order to MAKE USE of the calcium. And on top of that, I would always always always recommend getting nutrients from their natural sources as opposed to from pills.

            So in order to be healthy, bones need only a few things.

            Vitamin D
            Vitamin K2

            If you get all of these things from food and nature you will be super super healthy. Vitamin D comes from sunlight (depends where you live, you can supp this if you have to). Calcium should come from dairy (more on this below). Magnesium comes from fruits and vegetables, Vitamin K2 comes from FERMENTED dairy (the vitamin is made by bacteria).

            So about dairy. most dairy that you can find is stores will be bad for your skin/health. You need to seek out something called A2 dairy, which is dairy made by goats, sheeps, and only a limited amount of cows. This type of dairy is non-inflammatory and non psychoactive. I eat tons of sheep’s feta cheese (tons of calcium and K2) and goat milk kefir (homemade, tons of k2 and calcium again).

            About skincare: Eating more fats will help with having your skin shine, and will help you produce more testosterone which will make the face more pliable. Also, avoiding foods that are inflammatory will make your skin super smooth and shiny and soft and get rid of pimples. I did this for myself and it works. I haven’t used a single product on my face in years besides water and I never break out. I used to break out a lot. The trick for me was to cut out sugar, wheat, and A1 dairy (referenced above, basically any dairy made by cows).

            This post was super dense and long but its important. It will help you if you feel like trying some or all of it out.

          9. Oh and if you do try my advice out on a test run or whatever, literally all you have to do is follow your instincts in regards to knowing how much dairy to eat. Don’t have to force it down.

          10. Thanks for all that info! It’s funny how you mentioned my biggest vices – poor nutrition and technology, though I am still the size of a 14 year old in spite of those things. Not that I’m complaining, I quite like it.

            Like most people, following a forced discipline never works for long, so I will just see if your suggestions seem like something that could be beneficial for me to do, lest I hastily go out and spend money on stuff I’m not going to eat.

            Not like 2 weeks is a long time, but I will compare my results between now and 2 weeks from now and adjust my nutrient intake if I feel inspired.

            I’ve read quite a bit on how actually the foods and activities you’re drawn to correlate with your state of mind. I’ve been more inclined to depression for many years and have slowly ate less and less healthy food. Exercise was always forced, but as I am becoming less depressed, I am feeling more inclined towards health related things without strain.

            It’d be nice to stop eating so much crap without forced discipline, which has happened before and was very pleasant to not want to eat so much candy. Too much bad food also makes you more depressed. The negativity is quite a loop when it gets going.

          11. Good stuff guys.

            @A How much do you think pasteurization affects mineral and vitamin levels, especially K2? Here in Finland there’s very little demand for unpasteurized fermented A2 dairy, which is why even the largest supermarkets can offer only a very limited and expensive selection. I’m trying to determine whether it’s more sensible to just supplement K2, as one month’s worth of them only costs about 10 usd.

          12. Pasteurization is not a big deal, and makes dairy much safer. I wouldn’t stress over it, just buy the highest quality stuff you can reasonably afford. The cheese I buy has been pasteurized but then after that it gets fermented for a few months so it’s fine.

            The milk I drink has been UHT processed too, but it’s not a big deal.

            Unpasteurized dairy has some benefits too i’ll agree but it’s not worth the hassle, risk, and loss of peace of mind. People do die from drinking raw milk.

            Now, if you can find a fermented cheese that was made from raw milk, it will be safe (fermentation makes it safe) and have more nutrients than a pasteurized milk cheese, but it’s not worth losing sleep over.

          13. Alright, thanks for the info. You mentioned earlier about seeing actual jaw growth after adopting a more optimal diet. What could possibly have caused that? Could the answer be as simple as increased testosterone?

          14. Ton of jaw growth. I’m actually quite proud of my mandible right now.

            But I made that post a while ago before I knew as much as I know now. Looking back, I think my jaw grew that much because of yes diet, hormones, exercise, sunlight, whatever. But also, I think tongue posture had a lot to do with it BECAUSE: I used to keep my tongue in between my lower teeth instead of in between my upper teeth.

            That was quite problematic because now I need my upper teeth to catch up to my lower teeth in both width and in forward movement.

            I wonder, during that period, if I would have kept my tongue up in my palate if that would have grown, and the jaw would have grown along with it too.

            No way to test that.

          15. Also something else I will bring up, and this on the fringes ok, is that when I went about 2 weeks without any form of sexual release, all of a sudden all of my teeth became very sore like they were moving. This was before I started chewing the gum again too, and I had been mewing for quite a while. I started wondering if there is any link between bone health/growth and what I mentioned and I found a story of some guy who claims (emphasis on it being just a claim) that he was able to grow taller by abstaining and by doing jumping everyday where he would reach for the ceiling. He claims that releasing too often causes the bones to not want to grow/change/move.

            Like I said this is really on the fringes stuff, and I can’t prove or disprove it. I can’t even say if it is sound scientifically or not, but it is interesting. If you are an experimenter it might be worth a shot because its free and there is nothing to lose.

          16. Yeah, I feel you. I look in the mirror 20+ times a day just to keep looking at the progress. At night I feel as though I’m 20 years older than I am and my face is all haggard, which might just be nonsense, but I don’t know. Also, recording videos on the webcam seems to take away most of the 3d-ness I see in the mirror. Might be webcam distortion or the changes thus far are too subtle to be picked up.

            I’m also currently listening to a binaural for 2+ hours a day for changing my eye color. I tried it back in April for a week and it didn’t do anything, but trying again with less skepticism, I’ve been doing it for about a week this time around as well and my eyes are a lot brighter; they’ve turned from hazel to faint green. I figure that if the big facial changes will take longer, I might as well add another rare feature (only around 2% of people have green eyes). It’s called Quadible Integrity on YouTube if you’re interested; the difference is very noticeable to me.

          17. My results have been the opposite, that’s strange. My face always looks better at the end of the day vs when I wake up. I usually wake up looking haggard as you put it, then at night my palate feels wider, my face looks more 3d, teeth seem less retracted, etc. I feel like my sleeping position is the bottleneck here. I’ve been trying to sleep in some sort of optimal position but I always move in my sleep.

            That said I am still getting great results over time. I’m starting to believe that anything is possible with proper face pulling and oral myology/posture. I’ve got pictures from a month ago to now clearly showing a shorter face with bigger better cheeks and eye support. Very cool to see proof.

            As far as camera distortion, I found a cool graphic online that shows what we are talking about clearly.

            imgur (dot) com/CEcJPER (dot) jpg

            That’s not me btw.

            And really really interesting about the eye color stuff. I do have an open mind to it because I have seen my own eyes change not colors by shades, from lighter brown to super dark brown. I’m skeptical on actually changing the color but i’ll give it a look and see what’s up

          1. I’m using a temporary email, so check your junk folder in case it doesn’t show up.

          2. Sorry; 3rd comment. In case you don’t get the email in which I said the same thing: if my email doesn’t show up, just leave a comment here and I will use a different email. I sent it a few minutes ago.

          3. This site has been quite dead in the past few days – anyone have progress to report or anything?

          4. Nothing major to report, just gradual progress. But I do have to say that sometimes I feel the progress is transient, like it comes and goes. There was one morning I woke up and I felt like i had made a lot of progress/changes, but it seems to come and go. Quite strange.

        2. That’s interesting, I was supposed to grow to 182 cm / 6 ft according to a doctor’s prediction when I was a baby. However, I reached maturity at 170 / 5,7. Now that I think of it, I started masturbating 1-2 times a day when I was only eleven.

          It wouldn’t be a surprise at all if masturbation hindered growth like that. The ancients all over the world used to write about how it weakens the man physically, mentally and spiritually. I’ve only been masturbating 1-3 times a month lately, but I think I’m going to enter full abstinence for a year or so just to see how deep the rabbit hole goes in that regard. You feel so fucking good and sharp all the time when you haven’t ejaculated in a while, creating a clear contrast to the few days of crippling anhedonia following a release.

          I have also started optimizing my diet (or returning to the basics) in a way that supports testosterone and general well being. Your summarized points have helped a lot too.

          I too used to hang the tongue in the bottom of my mouth between the lower teeth before I learnt about mewing, but it doesn’t seem like it had any effect to the size of mandible (it’s average by modern standards, just set back).

          1. By the way, have you guys had gummy smile? The amount of gum area that shows when I make a really wide smile is ridiculous (plus somewhat disgusting due to gaps in my teeth), and sometimes I wonder how big forward and upwards movement of maxilla is actually needed until even the widest smile shows teeth only. However, I think it’s reasonable to assume that in the optimal and most natural position the gums of an average person shouldn’t be visible when smiling.

          2. I have a fairly gummy smile, but last night I smiled wide in the mirror and somehow almost all of the gum was covered by my lip, though the smile isn’t that forward, so I get lines all over my face when smiling, but still it really seems like progress. My upper row of teeth did seem a little bit further out, but I will have to see about that. It shouldn’t take that much of a forward maxilla to have a decent smile.

          3. That is very encouraging to hear. Damn the comment section is getting really difficult to navigate through, hopefully CP posts a new blog entry soon.

          4. It’s odd how new comments don’t always show up at the bottom, unless I’m just imagining that. It’s a shame the forum is membership only, which is not worth paying for anymore when there’s no new articles. Hopefully he’s still alive!

          5. I don’t know if I would ever recommend full abstinence. Just moderation that comes from following your natural libido and not super stimulus like technology gives you. Never repress yourself though, that will make things worse imo. For me it’s like once a week.

            As for gummy smile, I used to have one but my teeth have intruded from keeping them in contact all day long and it’s much better now. Don’t know if my maxilla moved or not, think it was all teeth movement.

          6. I actually do believe that NOFAP has some incredible benefits. Whenever I’m on it, life becomes more awesome and intense. Progress becomes much easier as well as making money.

          7. I do believe 100% that it’s entirely possible to cure this CFD for everyone. My life purpose is to become VERY RICH so I can use the money and create the ultimate cure for every human being. I can also use that money to get this information out there into the public so CFD will be prevented. There’s a better future in stall for all of us.

  25. Quick update to you guys:

    I found a computer camera that takes good pictures. iMac late 2009 model. Maybe all iMacs have good cameras. The images come out just how they look when a dentist or orthodontist takes a picture of my face. All of my laptops (macbooks, thinkpad) and my phones (iphones) took distorted images. I’m going to be using this computer to take photos from now on.

    Also, I thought of something genius that may or may not work. When I was at the new ortho for consult they were talking about something called Acceledent which vibrates the teeth in order to help them move faster, but we are trying to move the whole face too so I found a way to vibrate the whole face and that is to do singing exercises and humming. When you do these your whole face resonates and vibrates and using the exact same principles this may or may not help the face move more quickly.

    So I am going to be doing singing exercises in my oral posture routine now and see if it helps. Back when I had better facial aesthetics I used to sing in a band and I want to see if it helps. It makes evolutionary sense if you think about the face as a resonating chamber, a tool to help the voice project, almost like a speakerbox. But anyways, I don’t know if it works, but if you are interested you can find free singing exercise things online. I used to use one called Brett Manning singing success I think.

    1. I thought I was alone in the picture distortion. I always look in the mirror (bathroom, kitchen, or car) and think “Oh, what a handsome devil!” and then looking in my low quality webcam or low quality phone camera it’s like my nose swelled up and my eyes have shifted an inch over. Looking in my brother’s iSight camera, I didn’t look anywhere near as bad as the other cameras made me look. I wonder why a low quality lens can make you look so ugly?

      1. You made a lot of posts, I will reply to them all right here;


        One celeb to check out who looks better with more muscle is Joel McHale. He transformed himself over the past few years… shorter face, more bulk, better hair, etc. He did well for himself.

        As far as favoring a masculine vs feminine aesthetic for yourself, that really depends on how your face looks. In the commentary for the community DVD (the show that Joel McHale is on) one of the coworkers even says “It’s ok that Joel bulked up because he has that ‘leading’ bone structure”. Basically I think she means that certain people can bulk up and others when they do so look out of place.


        Yeah I too have noticed that it feels like things change almost instantly sometimes. Its a strange feeling.

        I enjoyed the gum chewing when I did it but I stopped for the past few weeks. I felt like it was going too far and i’ve just decided to chew real food. Might be a mistake we will see.


        Yea I don’t know why low quality cameras cause this distortion. Maybe it has something to do with the lens being low quality and curving the light too much idk. But I have a feeling the low quality cameras only accentuate that which already exists. So maybe your eyes are slightly asymmetrical. When my teeth were slanted (fixed with better postures) in some cameras it looked like my teeth were at such a huge angle that it was almost comical. But in a good camera you could hardly tell. But it was still there.

        1. Haha, yeah, I didn’t notice all the posts I made were in response to you until I was finished.

          An example of celebs I just remembered was Josh Peck. If you’re familiar with the Nickelodeon show Drake and Josh from a few years ago, Josh was fat and portrayed as the dork, while Drake was portrayed as the hunk. Even when watching the show, Josh didn’t look like he had any potential, but years after the show he lost weight, bulked up, has quite a bit of money and looks fantastic. Ironically, Drake has lost most of his sex appeal and is bankrupt.

          Yesterday I went to the grocery store right after I finished chewing the gum for an hour. While sitting in the car in the parking lot, I had what I would term “resting douche face” – everything in my face was swelled in muscle, my cheekbones were sticking out tremendously and my eyes were effortlessly narrow. Just because of the way I could feel my face, my confidence was going up just as I sat there. Several girls were looking at me while they walked by, including a 55+ year old, which was quite exciting and makes the brutal jaw workout with the gum (dipped in ice water) worth it.

          1. You dip your falim gum into ice water? That’s interesting.. why do you do that?

            I kept mine stored in water because it lasted longer. When I stored it dry it would last a few days, but when I stored it submerged I could get it out to 2 weeks or so. I rechewed the same piece, the natural oils kept it bacteria free.

            I tried keeping it in the fridge too but I found that the cold made it brittle so I stopped doing that.

          2. (It seems like I can’t reply to you directly, in case my comment shows above yours)

            I use Mastic gum, which is from Greece – it seems to be the consensus that the Mastic gum is much tougher than the Falim gum, though I haven’t tried the latter.

            I’m pretty sure I saw the suggestion of using cold water on this site – the thing with the crystals is that some of them are soft and totally useless and some of them lose their hardness quickly. Dipping it in cold water keeps the gum really tough, so you’re basically gnawing on it instead of your teeth flattening it, if that makes sense.

            I guess you did that to make your gum supply last longer or did you do it for flavor? I’ve read that the gum pieces are reusable, but the idea of putting an old chewed up piece back in my mouth is a little gross.

          3. Yeah, I meant the mastic gum.. the one that tastes like pine.

            Really? You are scared to rechew gum? Guess it might be a culture thing. But yeah keeping it in water preserves the pine flavor for a long time as well. It also makes it last longer.

            Main reason I did it was to save myself from having to buy a new pack all the time because of how little comes in a box relative to the price.

  26. There is a high level frequency that helps for facial enhancement. It does way more than just what the description says. I know it helps with face move up and forward too. Type “Quadible Integrity” on youtube; “facial toner”.

    There is also the “stress relief” frequency. Listen to this and feel your whole facial area (inside and outside) at the same time and relax your whole face, let it go. Most of you have much tension and put effort in the tongue too. Relax your jaw it will go by itself in the best current position and just gently let the tongue on the roof. However do keep your teeth together.

    In regards to using vibrations: yes it works. We can trust this guy for he is very advanced spiritually. It is “channel higher self” on youtube, he also has a site with a nice search button where you can type topics you want to hear about, he has many many videos. The OM/AUM mantra (it is not really a mantra, it is more like the sound/vibration of the Universe). The last part of the OM (OOOOMMMM) and (AAUUMMMM) is felt in the face.

    Using affirmations also works for anything you want to manifest. Sit on a chair with proper body/face posture. If your tongue is in your airway and it makes a sound when you breath, you can actually use that sound to relax: feel the sound and relax in it, feel your breath. Now start using an affirmation in your mind or aloud such as “beauty” or “my face moves up and forward” or “palate expansion” or “wide dental arches” or “posture” or “I am the master of my life” or “relax” or “breath” or … Use the affirmation every few seconds or much less (I prefer less, like every 20 seconds) and at the same time feel your face and inside your face: right now your body is listening to you and your face is doing what you want. If you want just before sleep use affirmation like “during my sleep my facial beauty and function moves to perfection” and know that it will.

    You can do this with eyes closed or with eyes open. You can also visualise if you want. There are also subliminals that people make. Type something like “subliminal beauty” on youtube.

    You can also do this while watching a picture of someone with a beautiful face and/or a trait you really like.

    When working out for like a squat or deadlift or overhead press it is indead you whole body, neck and jaw that presses on your palate through the tongue but also the sides of the tongue on the sides of the roof.

    Lastly I recommend the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and his practical book.

    If you want to enhance/heal your face it can take 10 years but if you can go into the root of things and work from there on it will take only 2. Going to the source of things is what I just described above. We are all creators.

    Relaxed facial and tongue positioning + back teeth together
    Chanting OM/AUM

    1. Im skeptical of affirmation type stuff. You can see most of the early posts on this blog are about affirmations and ‘mind over matter’ type stuff but honestly I think a lot of problems people have are rooted in actual physical things that can be changed like diet, posture, habits, etc. I think affirmations don’t really work but I think meditation is useful and meditating on something you want can help you figure out how to get it.

      For example someone with open mouth posture who does affirmation all day long about being good face looks will never ever get it. But if you have the knowledge here then affirmations can help you stay on the path, or discover ways to make it better, but that just falls under meditation imo. I’m much more practical type of a person I believe in finding things that are repeatable and quantifiable if only so that they can be passed on to new people.

      1. I think people who preach repeating affirmations have never questioned the logic behind it – why would you keep telling yourself something you really believed in? Wouldn’t you only do that if you were trying to convince yourself?

        The better way of explaining it is that you receive what you are “being”, so someone who is sure that they’re ugly and stews in rage over it won’t be receiving any help to change that, whereas a person who consciously chooses to not reinforce negativity will be freed up of the life circumstances they created under their past choice of being negative. I don’t mean “be positive” since that is often based in trying to run away from all the negativity inside of you.

        Before I knew anything about the external world reflecting your inner space, back in 2012 I remember just changing my mind into thinking I was hot. I can’t remember why I did this, but I know it wasn’t a matter of repeating contrived phrases to myself or trying to convince myself, I’m pretty sure I just decided I was hot for whatever reason. When my belief changed, all of a sudden I was getting compliments all the time and people were staring at me; even straight men were acknowledging that I was good looking.

        It’s kind of odd, because back then I was simultaneously suppressing my overall inferiority, but getting these compliments didn’t really surprise me, it was just like “Why thank you, even though I already knew I was hot”. I think my looks improved a little bit as a result, but I knew nothing of facial structure and I can assure you my face was completely flat and there was nothing to really marvel at.

        A few months after that, all the suppressed inferiority came back, so that was directly in my face 24/7 and as a result, all the compliments went away and my life was nearly 100% negative. I still look back at that time as proof that life is just a reflection of your attitude/beliefs.

        I also went into this face remodeling without the “poor me” attitude and thoughts of doubt and have seen surprising results quite quickly.

  27. Hey CP, have you considered opening the forum up? People are using the comments section of your articles like a forum basically. They’re bringing up and exploring all kinds of topics and it makes it kind of messy and disorganized. I think opening the forum would be beneficial. People would be coming back to site not just to read a new article but also to read new threads. It could bring in a lot more people.

  28. @Japanophile (couldn’t write a new reply to the previous comment chain)

    Yeah we’re probably doing the same thing then. I don’t chew much gum anymore (but hard foods yes), so the one difference seems to be that I already have pretty comfortable wide palate (only very setback), whereas you said yours is narrow. It is probably why you’re feeling like gagging and I’m not: good palate width likely compensates some of the lacking forward space. Which, by the way, only proves how important it is to get the tongue apply passive force to ALL directions in order to achieve a truly healthy and optimized facial structure. When you relax the tongue, it is kind of going to try float through the palate until one day it has finally moved the maxilla forward enough to be able to si in its most optimal position.

    The more I learn about all of this the more perplexed I become at the state of modern dental sciences. How did science end up like this?

    Or, is our knowledge in some areas just not as far from, say, pre-electric era as we’ve deluded ourselves to believe? Perhaps this, historically speaking abnormally fast, scientific progress of last couple of centuries has caused us to see health institutions as almighty in their wisdom to reach correct conclusions, believing that the correct way or theory will always gather the most support, and now thanks to the internet we’ve finally started to realized how fragile and vulnerable to laziness, stupidity and corruption even the sciences can be… and how the most optimal method is not always the most practiced.

    Or perhaps this is common knowledge and I’m just growing up.

    Oh yeah, you asked about pictures too. I will definitely be posting pictures if the before / after photos end up indicating like you can create a big structural difference using nothing else than passive forces of your own body. I would spread it like the gospel, because I would know how immensely some could benefit from it. No matter how fucking tolerant and how equal to everyone people like to sell themselves as, the reality is that your face determines a big portion of the kind of treatment you’re going to get from the people you meet in your life.

    1. I’m not sure it’s narrow in terms of width, unless by width you mean room from the front to back; I never noticed having a lack of room before the bump on the roof of my mouth got bigger, but I guess I’ll just see if that goes away. My smile has become pretty normalized, though not ideal – it is especially noticeable when I try and do the “Gackt smile” (the Japanese singer featured in a few articles here) and can see just how much I have to manipulate my mouth to grin, but still, I am quite happy with any improvement.

      I have also become quite interested in skin care, so I make daily efforts to whiten my face and a clearer complexion makes the structural changes even more noticeable without dark spots and freckles obscuring my view, so I would recommend you try some stuff out if you are interested – I can tell you what worked for me if you want.

      Indeed, the current state of dentistry is pretty effed up. The main thing I find baffling is how common and unquestioned the idea of pulling wisdom teeth is. Even famous people with good structures are getting them pulled, which indicates dentist stupidity and also that even the most “ideal” faces in society might not have enough room for all their teeth. I was chewing the mastic gum on my un-erupted wisdom tooth gums for some dumb reason, which unsurprisingly made them swell up and painful, but I’ve noticed that the teeth are now coming in – this is all in a span of a few days. It might just be coinci-dental (ignore the pun), since I wouldn’t recommend anyone inflict so much pain on themselves, but ya never know.

      Indeed, I would spread such a thing as well, since even though I was never a 0/10, I know that a lifetime of timid and reserved behavior had to do with the mental image I had of myself due to my face. I forget if it was to you or to the username “A” I said this to, but days ago I could feel my personality changing just because of the pressure in my face; the connection is quite undeniable.

      I was quite in denial or at least unaware of the difference in treatment people with a nice face received until a few months ago. A good example of this is in the music video “Runaway Train” by Soul Asylum. In the video, it features many pictures of kids who have been missing for years and a joke I do with my brother whenever we watch the video is when an attractive child comes on the screen we say something like “I’d look for him/her day and night” and then an unattractive child comes on the screen “She’s missing? I never noticed”. It may have started as a joke, but it’s true that people feel more empathy or sorrow for an attractive person who is missing or killed compared to a fat dork.

  29. this website is so frustrating to comment on. My comments get lost and or they don’t get approved. It was in a previous posts were in the comments section it was mentioned that myofunctuonal therapy was “basically Mewing” This comment is so wrong!! Myofunctuonal Therapy would answer so much of these comments on this post. Gagging on your tongue is indicative of tongue tie!!! A strong gag reflex, unable to swallow pills and narrow Pallet all points to tongue tie. Also if your mother ever said that you where a colicky baby that could not breast feed/ or caused pain when breastfeeding also red flag for tongue tie. If tongue can’t reach the Pallet it can’t form a nice arch.

    Myofuntional therapy is about strengthening all the muscles in the face including the tongue so the tongue can have maximum force against the Maxilla. So the uncertainty about resting the tongue or put a lot of force on the pallet…. pushing the tongue up strengthens th tongue so when at rest it puts more force effortlessly.

    My kids are doing myofunctuonal therapy, I will join them this summer. They do myofunctuonal exercises 15 minutes/3 x /day. In less then 3 months their Maxilla’s have moved forward and their lips are much fuller. exactly like those before and after photos of DR.MEWS patients. exept in much shorter time frame. I am on top of my kids to do the work every day though AND it is quite hard work.

    MUSCLE MOVES BONE. 100 % of the time.

    The comments about vibration and half smiling. Well those questions are also answered in myofuntional therapy. If you can’t afford it then watch and so the YouTube videos. This therapy is our first step in our orthodontic process but I truly believe that it will shorten the journey by years and save thousands.

    Also snoring and grinding teeth are all signs of restricted airway!! And may indicate sleep apnea. My husband grinds teeth at night. Lost chunks of his wisdom teeth in the process. But the myofunctuonal therapist said it was a restricted airway issue. The teeth grind therefore opening up the airway. The dentist just got him a mouth guard which had him sleeping with open mouth making the situation worse.

    A therapist is worth all the money you pay them. They will taylor the therapy to your particular circumstances. Your bite is unique to you, your breathing and posture is unique to you, your solutions will be unique to you.

    1. Catoo – Yes, I think it took 3 weeks for your comment to appear, though I’m glad the comment section is more lively than what I thought. I can echo your kids’ results with the lips; mine used to be like I was sucking on a lemon 24/7 (aka near invisible) now they are very full – just the tongue posture/push swallows did that as well as pushed my nose upwards, the results are something I wouldn’t have believed a few months ago.

    2. Hi!

      Im curious about the half smile technique you mention?

      Can you say anything about what you have learned about this?

      1. Half smile technique has been discussed in the comments, However Myofunctional Therapy has specific exercises that incorporate the posture with strength and tongue tone. Like annunciation of “Aaaa” “Oooo” and really pulling the face muscles tight (forhead, high cheeks and chin), repeat 25x 3 times a day. Dr. Mew has ppl find tongue on spot by saying “N” and facial muscles get pulled tight. Myofunctional therapy has tongue twisters by repeating “night, nod , need, node, noon etc” 25x 3 times a day. And the whole point is to exaggerate, tighten and stretch each muscle.

    3. Catoo, I’m assuming you’re referring to my comment in that other thread. I don’t see how I’m wrong. How is myofunctional therapy not similar to mewing? As far as getting a better looking face goes, both methods seek to improve muscle tone, form, and function. Strengthening the face muscles and tongue through various exercises, and also learning to swallow properly is the main premise of both, is it not?

      Myofunctional therapy goes well beyond a few basic pointers, and trains the entire face, but the good results on facial appearance are similar to orthotropic cases, as you say in your post. All I was implying in that other thread was that myofunctional therapy is a more comprehensive take on what Mike Mew talks about.

      Tongue tie could be the issue for many people, that is true. However, it seems like they would be well aware of it if they had it. Personally, I have the gagging problem and trouble swallowing pills but no tongue tie. My palate width seems pretty good for the circumstances, which is a bit confusing considering my maxilla is set back, and my orthodontic work definitely wasn’t expanding my teeth outward, plus many people here talk about having a narrow palate along with all the other symptoms.

      1. You can have tongue tie and not know it. My daughters tongue tie is covered and only visible by pressing fingers under the tongue into the back of her throat. She is 14 and no dental professional, no doctor (through nasty severe ear infections), no breastfeeding lactation consultant had ever mentioned to me she had this.

        The difference in Mewing (gum chewing, proper swallow and keeping mouth closed all the time) and Myofunctional Therapy is huge. Mewing promotes good daily habits that do create small changes. However I compare that to walking exercises while myofunctional therapy I would compare to bodybuilding exercises. Myofunctional Therapy targets specific muscles in face and tongue, It changes weekly, progress is charted and ***strength is measured**!! You can not achieve bodybuilding results with walking exercises because you are not targeting all the muscles.

  30. Should the tongue suck at the palate or just push lightly? I feel like if i plaster my tongue to my palate, it can really exert a lot of pressure.

    1. Rolf – The pressure should be the equivalent of your tongue just resting there. I used to put a lot of intentional force on the palate, but that required me to be constantly doing it, so it wasn’t really beneficial. Also, bones respond to light pressures over time.

      1. I’m not talking about pushing though. I’m talking about utilizing differences in atmospheric pressure. Basically thumb-sucking but without the thumb. I have a theory that you can apply more force with less effort by doing this. Mewing on steroids. You can do this all day long without strain.

        When I do this i feel a slight pressure in the nose. Only problem is that I’m not sure if this applies upwards, downwards pressure or a combination. I don’t do it regularly yet, because of this fact. I’m still reading up on the physics of atmospheric pressure.

        I came up with the method because someone I know had a habit of doing this, and their maxilla is up and forward. But like I said, I wouldn’t do this before I read up and understand the physics of it better.

        1. Very interesting. I’m probably not in the right state to comment on this seeing as I have a stupid headache from bad food i ate but let’s at least try and figure this thing out. I’ll give you my view:

          I feel that it is most certainly a downward force. I can feel it too, it feels quite good actually, and it is very intense, but it doesnt seem to be going in the right direction. I believe it is much simpler than worrying about atmospheric pressure. I think in this case you can simply think of the tongue as acting like a suction cup that is translating whatever downward force you are using to create the suction right into your midface. That’s the only way the physics of it makes sense. Imagine James Bond hanging vertically by one arm from a suction cup attached to a pane of glass. Is the window being pulled downwards or being pushed upwards?

          Not enough air is being displaced for pressure to matter IMO (been a while since i’ve been in school), and even if in a vacuum, the strongest force would still be gravity right?

          If you take the example of a straw, when you use one you are removing the air inside of it, creating a vacuum and allowing liquid to rise, but it rises a lot due to the weight of the liquid still in the container you are drinking from… so it’s not the vacuum itself that matters, but the forces that are allowed to act once the vacuum is put into place.. so the real question is what forces act on the face and how could a vacuum help them to push the maxilla upwards? This question is beyond me due to all of the musculature involved (which I have no clue about) but i’ll guess that it basically comes down to gravity vs the tongue and jaw.

          A very simple way to test this without caring about the science is to create the greatest suction force possible and then ‘snapping’ it open and seeing which way things recoil. When I do it my face springs UPWARDS which shows that it was artificially being dragged downwards by the tongue.

          Open to debate though.

        2. Right, and I just read up on how suction cups work, they work by removing air inside of themselves which allows the atmospheric pressure to exert a force against the cup which helps to keep it in place

          There are actually formulas that you can use to calculate the force that air pressure would exert on its own , and compare it to gravity. My brain hurts now so I won’t

          also last thing, if ambient pressure was all that was needed then couldn’t you just open your mouth all day long and let the air push you maxilla up?

          1. Thank you for your reply. I have been thinking a lot about it as well, and my brain hurts too. But it’s physics, so it should be possible to figure it out somehow.

            I do agree with you that this would most likely create a downwards pull. It seems to make more sense.

            But what really happens in the mouth when you do this? You remove air under the tongue, so then it should create low pressure under the tongue, right? Then the air outside will push on the tongue. But what happens in the areas where the tongue touches the palate? Will there be a downwards pull in the cavity under the tongue, but an upwards pull in the areas where the tongue touches the palate? So confusing.

            “If ambient pressure was all that was needed then couldn’t you just open your mouth all day long and let the air push you maxilla up?”

            But then you don’t really have a difference in atmospheric pressure in your mouth and outside.

  31. I was curious. Has anyone who has been “mewing” or has used an expander noticed an increased distance between their eyes?

    1. Dadfa – I’ve been doing the tongue posture, push swallows, and gum chewing and my eyes have narrowed, which makes them look farther apart.

  32. Hey CP is the orthodontist you reopened your extraction spaces with, not open for business anymore? I tried calling the number you had posted on your blog when you had posted about him.

    Do you know if he moved elsewhere or just plain retired?

  33. Hi everyone,

    I’ve pretty much had midface deficiency, narrow dental arches and crowded teeth my whole life. But sadly, I went ahead and had extraction orthodontics as a teen without realising how bad this is for facial aesthetics. Fast-forward into adulthood, and my teeth have relapsed, so I’m no better than I was before. The orthos in my area are only offering Invisalign or Damon braces, which I’m considering because I’ve read that they can expand the dental arches a little, so I’d have more room for my tongue. But, because my mouth is small and my teeth are large looking, I wonder if purely cosmetic procedures like veneers to make the teeth smaller, is the best option for me?? (If I can afford it, that is). Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

  34. Nevermind about approving my comment, CP. Posted it days ago….I just wanted to add that I’ve been doing the tongue-to-palate thing for about a year which HAS resulted in a slight improvement on the left side of my face. So, it can work. But, no improvement on the right because there’s less tongue space that side. I just wanted to know whether to go for self-litigation braces to expand the arches, because this is the treatment being offered where I live. That’s all.

    Might try belt face pulling. Someone spoke about it on breakthematrix…

  35. Hi guys
    First, sorry for my english, but this isn’t my main language.
    I don’t know how I found this website but I was really lucky. I was visiting one of the best orthodontist in my city and he tells me that before treatment I need to extract my premorals and then I should get surgery (I have overbite, my mandible is small even considered to today’s standards. Lucky I avoid starting treatment one day before it starts because I was reading that extractions are not good idea. I was sure there is no way to “repair” my face but CP give me hope that I can look normal or even handsome, I was wondering why I am looking that ugly because everyone in my family was really good-looking in my age. My face is also assymetric, inner corner of eye and part of nose is upper on right side, I have also less developed cheek bone and more crowded teeths on this side.

    Japanophile, I have one question about that:
    “Thanks for all that info! It’s funny how you mentioned my biggest vices – poor nutrition and technology, though I am still the size of a 14 year old in spite of those things. Not that I’m complaining, I quite like it.”

    As I said, my english is bad, so I don’t know what you really mean by that. Are you 14 years old or you look like 14 years old?
    This is important question for me because I am already 20 and I think that it will be hard to score good result with your techniques in my age. I want treatment which let me to save even wisdom teeths in my jaw with some space.

    1. Overbiter – Hey mate, I guess your comment didn’t get approved til today, or else I would’ve replied right away. No, I am not 14, though some people have said they thought I was 14, I think they are being a bit too generous. I think I probably look 17 or 18 to most people but I am actually turning 23 this year. I look younger because my face isn’t hyper masculine and I’m a skinny midget (which I actually love).

      I didn’t start any of my facial remodeling until maybe 2 months ago, so you being 20 shouldn’t be an issue at all. The belief “it will be hard to get good results at my age” needs to be fully let go of if you want to get results, because I mean this quite literally that your beliefs dictate what you experience. The reason why I’m getting pretty good results is because I’m not keeping them away with skepticism. It took a lot of dedication/understanding to learn to let go of limiting beliefs, which is something I am still doing, but I am feeling more free than I have ever felt lately. If you want some help with that, I will gladly help you out; whether that be on this site or through email.

      One of my wisdom teeth seems to be coming in now and it’s affecting my whole skull, though I refuse to get them taken out. Yesterday I noticed the slightest change in my jaw angle, so I am guessing/hoping that some expansion is going on.

  36. A – Hopefully my reply will be right under yours; the reply button is all over the place.

    What kind of sleeping position are you going for? The only position I think is bad is sleeping on your side, with the side of your face completely pressed into the pillow (mouth can come open); now that I think about it, my dominant side position is the cheek with much less fat on it, even though I am chewing pretty evenly on both sides.

    Would you ever consider posting your before/after pics? Maybe through an email if you don’t want it archived on the internet? It’d be really good to see someone elses progress.

    Thanks for linking another one of those pictures, I was looking at them yesterday after posing for a video on my DSLR gave less than desirable results. I probably don’t even have the settings right either, but I always wonder how big YouTubers all know how to configure their cameras as to not look ugly. The unconscious tendency is to think “I’ll just try and avoid cameras whenever possible” instead of becoming more photogenic. It’s good to become aware of those thoughts to avoid fueling any sort of defeatist mindset.

    Looking at the DSLR footage, the eye color change is more dramatic than I thought – under the proper light, they’re definitely green, I will just need to keep listening to bring out their full potential. I was going to post more before/after pics tomorrow, but I will do that after it has been a full month since the last ones, so the eye difference should be visible too. Not just for that reason, but I found a binaural for maxilla protraction. Yesterday I thought of looking one up and the slim chance of actually finding one already looks promising (one of the commenters even mentions this site).

    Since the eye one worked so well, that already gives some credence to binaurals as a whole (mixed with belief of course). I have only listened to the maxilla one twice, so I will need a few hours a day for a while to really gauge if it works.

    1. For sleeping position, everywhere I look suggests that on your back with no pillow is the best. This isn’t just for facial aesthetics, but for things like proper breathing, proper posture, etc. So I try this, but my body seems not to want to sleep like this. I usually wake up sleeping on my side with my face pressed hard into the pillow. I’m a big believer in following instincts so i’m still trying to figure out what this all means and what the best sleeping position actually is, or if it even matters that much at all, so I can’t say anything definite on this.

      As far as my before and afters yeah I would be fine with sharing that but only on email. Maybe at the same time you could show me any eye color changes you have seen.

      1. Bobby, affirmations are just words and thus are useless unless you really believe them – if you did believe them, there would be no point in repeating them to yourself. What’s best is to become aware that your mind is repeating conditioning you picked up from somewhere and is not necessarily telling you the “absolute” truth. For example, you may look in the mirror and find less than exciting results and this will start a negative thinking train of “Progress isn’t possible, I’m ugly, nothing’s happening” – just notice this and don’t buy in to all of these negative projections; if you stop fueling these patterns, over time the intensity will lessen and won’t be able to impact what you experience because you’re not impeding results with your negativity.

        I listened to the maxilla binaural yesterday for maybe 3 or 4 hours. Before bed I looked in the mirror and thought I looked different, but I chalked it up to being tired. Looking in the mirror this morning, that same difference is still there. Something about my eyes looks altered, though I will keep listening for several hours a day to really confirm this. Combining hours of this with hours of the eye color binaural is a real brain melter haha.

          1. Feel free to share your pics if you feel like it; I will post my next pics in 2 weeks or so, though they might be through email.

            Make sure to listen with headphones and listen to each one at least once or twice a day. I’m not sure if me going overboard with 2 or 3 hours of each a day really makes a difference, but if you also feel like doing that, it probably wouldn’t hurt.

  37. Japanophile, I tried the HAZEL quadible integrity eyes thing for about one hour. WTF MAN! Before, I looked at my eyes to make 100% sure about the color.

    Dark brown before starting. I also went into this with FULL skepticism and knowledge of how powerful the placebo affect is. And now, after 2 days, my eyes are a lighter brown shade. I mean, WTF! Either the placebo effect is STRONG, like you said. Or these results are real.

    Going at this for another week. If this is real…life as we know it will change.

    1. Haha, that’s great to hear man. Is hazel the color you want to be your final result? I started with a hazel type of color, so green would be what would come after that – if your last name indicates your nationality, it would be pretty cool if an Asian could eventually have green eyes. Just for yours and everyone elses information, my username is just because I like anime; I always think everyone assumes I’m Japanese.

      It’s interesting to hear you got results in spite of the skepticism, because I’d say the grand majority of people who try it don’t get any results and then quit early on. I don’t really think it’s the binaurals doing everything, I think the results have all to do with yourself and the audios are just a method of bringing about the change you instigated. Maybe because you’re open to the idea of being able to improve your face, improving other parts isn’t a stretch? I don’t know, I’m just guessing, but it’s good you’re seeing a difference.

      On Wednesday I think, I was looking at my face on my DSLR camera and was a little bit disappointed – you know, you’re so used to looking at yourself in the mirror, but because it’s a flipped image or whatever, it’s not exactly what you really look like. Yesterday (Saturday night) I looked at it again on the same camera and it really looks like there’s been a change – not one worth calling the modelling agency over, but definitely a noticeable one; just after 2 or 3 days of the maxilla binaural. My mid face looks bonier than before, though I’m not sure if the improvement is enough to show up on camera in great detail. My eyes are definitely greener than a few days ago too, though to get the brightness in them I want, I have to look near a light, so that’ll take some more time with the binaurals, but I definitely think they’re both working.

    2. Oh yeah, one more thing. I’m not sure if you’d be interested in this, but I found it out just because I’m trying to build a good face for androgyny, but if you want thicker eyelashes, rub a little bit of vaseline on them before you go to bed. I’ve only done this two or three times and there’s already a difference – having the extra thickness and darker blacks of the lashes gives your eyes an extra pop.

      1. Ah yes, absolutely I’ve tried this before. People immediately began saying my eye brows became too bushy though… it depends on the person.

        I just wonder if my results are faster than most people’s for quadible integrity because I’m very relaxed and not thinking of ANYTHING, while listening.

        I’ll try the maxilla one for 30 minutes a day now.

  38. Dude no way! I was talking to my sister about eye colors. She said “my eyes are black. Your eyes are brown. Wait…why did your eyes become so light brown all of a sudden. They are hazel brown”. I’m not making this up. For the first time in my life. My sister told me my eyes looked hazel brown and even noticed the difference. There really is a change.

    1. Great to hear, mate. I need to step up my commitment to the eye binaural again; even though I listen to it an hour a day or so, I found one for hair repair and then I listen to the maxilla one probably 5 hours a day. I think the maxilla one is working, but since that is manipulating bone and not chemical levels, the initial changes will probably be subtler, but even then, my mid face seems to look fuller than before. I think I mentioned before that it’s pretty easy to visualize brighter eyes or a protruding face whenever you have the correlating binaural on because that’s what the audio is supposed to help you with anyways, but I am feeling quite confident that the results of both binaurals within a few months time will be amazing (though I have not stopped the gum chewing, tongue posture, etc. – I think that is down pat)

      1. To elaborate on the maxilla binaural – I get pressure in my skull when listening, as well as a feeling like my mid face is inflating, so I am quite confident in that. Also since listening to that, one of my wisdom teeth seems to be coming in fully (it’s been a start/stop process for 10+ years) and JE-SUS is it painful; it feels like my jaw is expanding simultaneously to accommodate it. I think people are too quick to dismiss these binaurals as hokey, though it is for that reason that they get nowhere with them.

        1. Time will tell the truth. Looking forward to your results!

          Yes, I listened to the maxilla one and forgot about it. Went to the gym and looked in the mirror. I just thought …. why do I look so different. It’s like the bags under my eyes disappeared, my mid-face looked more full, and my eyes looked more “feline”.

          This is also a mirror I’ve been looking at for who knows how long and never seen a difference until now.

          1. I hope you’re taking pics of your progress (eye and maxilla) because it’d be great to see someone elses results. I made a results video after listening to the eye binaural for a week and then made another one today because it’s been 2 weeks – I screencapped what my eye looked like last week and then today; the one on the right being today; https://gyazo.com/5e6afda760295c9d9d2fcdbd00e5a447

            Even more of the brown is gone. I also thought my face had become fuller since last week, noticeable even on a somewhat shoddy webcam. I wish more people would share their results; this website seems kinda dead other than us and maybe 2 other posters keeping this comments section alive.

  39. Looks like my previous comment is not going to appear. I stumbled upon a couple of intense facepulling methods a few days ago and decided to give them a try:



    I’ve only been doing this for a week, so I can’t speak about visible results, but both my teeth and jaws are feeling like they’ve begun to align themselves to a better position.

    I use a towel more than a belt, as it seems like it would be more closer to the natural function of ripping meat from a carcass than a belt between the back molars. Towel also makes contact with all teeth, which may make it more effective for pulling.

    The idea of using jaws to hang from a pull up bar with whole bodyweight felt very scary at first, but it’s actually not that bad. As long as you’re biting hard and aren’t obese (I weigh 170 lbs / 75kg), risk of an injury should be practically nonexistent.

  40. Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Fuck this site. Do posts with links have to be manually approved or why can’t I seem to be able to post anything while others can?

    No new blog posts either. CP must have ascended humanity and can’t be bothered with petty earthly matters any more.

    1. I think posts get stuck in the moderator queue when there are links within them. That’s just my best guess based on what happened to my posts so far. So I try to avoid links now.

    2. But I just read through all of the links you posted about face pulling with a belt/towel and all I have to say is WOW.

      That stuff looks really legit, I actually started trying it too with a regular leather belt. All I am doing so far is biting down really hard on the belt in different parts of my bite and pulling with my arm. Kind of like how you play with a dog with a rope or something like that. It feels very good so I will continue doing it for a few months to see what happens. I’m hopeful that this will fix my occlusion because of the way the forces are applied and how the teeth should move with the belt.

      I don’t think I am doing the hanging with bodyweight or knee pulling stuff though. Based on the pictures posted it definitely works, but I have to wonder if it puts the face into the ideal shape. I think biologically appropriate vectors are better, and you can only get those if you do movements that are biomechanically congruent with the way mankind evolved or whatever.

      Also, just a general comment to anyone reading, I’ve been watching tons of old movies and old shows recently like gameshows and sitcoms and I feel that everyone had much better facial looks just a few decades ago. And the softness of the diet should have been basically the same I think.. I mean it wasn’t that long ago. I encourage you guys to go rent some older movies (50s 60s) from your library to see what I mean. All the women have rounder, chubbier, healthier faces, and the men have more jaws, cheekbones, whatever. Kind of strange to see how things have changed.

      One thing I did think up though is that some breads do require you to do that facepulling type movement to eat them. I’m thinking of the tougher chewier french breads and stuff. It might be a way to get some pulling in during meals. Mew even talks about Danish(?) bread leading to bigger jaws, but he never mentioned the fact that you would have to pull on it to break it into pieces, he just talks about the chewing of it.

      Another idea I had recently is that braces make the teeth more ‘soft’ in that they move more quickly, so I was wondering if just putting braces on your teeth without doing any adjustments would make the face pulling stuff happen more quickly because the bones are already under a constant light force, so they are more prepped to move. Dunno the answer to this one, just a thought.

      1. Yeah you’re right, hanging from a pull up bar feels more awkward and less natural in the jaws and neck than using hands. On the other hand, pulling with hands requires quite a lot of effort from the triceps. Perhaps attaching the belt/towel to an empty broom stick and then pushing as if you were doing a bench press could make it easier.

        One thing I’ve noticed is that after pulling my incisors and canines forward, I create a slight temporary overbite, enabling my back molars to get in contact much better. Chewing gum feels much more effective in terms of applying force towards the base of maxilla afterwards.

        Folding towel a few times before biting hard on it with front teeth feels quite intense in the middle face. This could be somewhat similar to the bread thing you’re talking about.

        I too have noticed the degeneration of faces in movies over time. For example, in the original Star Trek almost everyone has such beautiful and aesthetic facial structures. It’s of course possible that even the best looking modern actors suffer from facial dystrophy, but on the other hand it could simply be that the Hollywood beauty standard itself has moved closer towards the appearance of an average person, in order to help consumers identify with protagonists. Shows like Office would lose some of their comedic realism if everybody on the show had strong or model tier aesthetics. Modern Hollywood is also very Jewish, and Jews don’t have particularly strong or appealing facial structures to begin with. Not to the extent of white caucasioids or some negroids.

        So perhaps the real question is, do actors with traditionally developed faces exist, or are they not wanted any more?

      2. I agree with older TV shows and music video, etc. having people with better looks in them. I notice this a lot in music videos from the 80s and even early 90s – my theory which may not be accurate at all, is it seems like the junk food epidemic didn’t really become popular until the mid 90s, so those 20 year old actresses/musicians in those works likely grew up in the 60s and 70s eating a lot more healthy food. These people have some oddly intriguing thing about their looks that doesn’t seem to be a result of fashion choices or anything, it’s just that nobody looks like them anymore. It’s a hard thing to phrase properly because I don’t know how to describe it.

        1. After quickly googling a few charts on yearly US obesity rates, it indeed seems like the obesity epidemic started to really take off in the late 80s – early 90s.

          Testosterone levels have been steadily falling since 60s too, which has its roots in not only lesser amount of physical activity and shittier diets, but environmental toxins too. On the other hand, due to these very same reasons, estrogen levels have been rising, which is not necessarily good for either sex.

          Since the face tends to tell a lot about well being of the whole body, what you describe as intriguing looks is probably simple healthiness and hormonal homeostasis.

          Above points bring us to another interesting matter: epigenetics. I have limited understanding of it, but in short it studies the influence external factors have over the expression of genes. If the shitty food you eat and toxins you expose yourself to in your daily life are able to negatively affect your genes, your children won’t even have a chance to reach their full potential, no matter how well they’re fed and raised after coming out of the womb.

          This is a really saddening thought, because well being of the people has a direct relationship with well being of the nations themselves. It can’t be just a coincidence how the cultural decadency of the west began around the same time as the health of its citizens started declining.

          1. Epigentics is something that I was very interested in for a while. They have studies showing that a famine can be seen even in the grandchildren of the affected population as far as detriments to growth. Makes you wonder.

            But I also believe in the ability of the human body to heal itself. And from what little I know of epigenetics and DNA methylation/demethylation I would have to say that it is possible to reverse damages done just by living and eating well for a period of time before having children.

            Another very blunt and crude point I will make is that if you view women to be like 3D printers who create children, them eating poorly would be like not having enough ink, or something along those lines. The nutrient stores in the mother due to diet before pregnancy and the diet during gestation are both hugely important in determining what the baby will develop into. Also her diet during breastfeeding. So much goes into creating a good human specimen. I think some communities are starting to pay this much attention again after decades of formula, poor diet, low calorie eating, etc etc.

            Unfortunately people still don’t eat very well, especially in the west, and you can see it in their behavior, in their bodies, and yes in their faces. I agree with you too that it is linked with the decline of the empires of the west. I would like to believe it can be turned around, but it is a tough battle because not only do you have to re-educate people on what ‘healthy’ food actually is you then have to find a way to displace the incumbents who push bad foods.

            As far as star trek, yeah that was one of the first examples I ever noticed that started me thinking about this stuff. I’m telling you, if hollywood had access to people like that these days they would definitely cast them… they just don’t really exist. People want to see good looking humans when they watch a movie. A show like the office I get your point and agree they need to be more relatable. But A list movies? Better be the most beautiful humans possible.

            When it comes down to it, I think its cumulative… no one thing caused this much of a decline – but all of them together.

            One the one hand it is sad to see, but on the other, I suppose things had to get this bad, and affect this many people in order for concrete solutions to be developed. I really like this idea of focusing on making beautiful faces because facial aesthetics are like you said a window into the health of the organism, so by optimizing this, we may be doing something quite amazing as far as solving for optimal health in humans.

          2. I think another thing that most people never even consider is the stored up emotional load of negativity that 99% of people carry around. It’s plain fact that the body is less healthy when you’re in a low mood; even if at the current moment, you’re not feeling that bad, there’s still a giant load of accumulation in your body.

            Not saying I’m walking on sunshine now, because it’s still going to be a day by day improvement for a while, but a few years ago, I was probably the most depressed, jealous, and cynical s.o.b. you’d ever meet. Even though I was 4 years younger than I am now, my skin was darkened and deathly like an old man and had patches of psoriasis everywhere. I had terrible acid reflux everyday, no matter what healthy food I ate or pills I took and I’m sure there were other things wrong, but I don’t really remember. While my case is a bit extreme, because I was quite bad, it’s truly quite rare to find an emotionally healthy individual; someone who doesn’t indulge in any pessimism, blaming, etc.

            I bring that up because I think the advent of the internet has helped fuel these negative patterns to a high degree because we have such easy access to other people’s lives to get jealous over, for example. Not to mention the ability to sit at a screen and be occupied all day and night instead of going outside leaves plenty of time to ruminate on things that make you feel bad.

            Sitting on the couch watching TV or going on the internet, thinking negative things constantly while cramming unhealthy garbage in your face certainly can’t lead to a healthy society.

            The kind of structures I find interesting are Debbie Gibson (pop singer), Tiffani Amber Thiessen, and Madonna (all from the 80s). I don’t mean to imply their facial growth is the best, but they have such interesting looks that I can’t think of anyone who looks like them. You could argue they look like any old popular bimbo, but I don’t think so. I keep wondering if it has to do with the fashion of the time, but I don’t think it would be that simple.

            In regards to what you said about homeostasis, because I have been disidentifying from all the negativity in my mind (it’s beginning to fade away) for roughly the same amount of time as the facial restructuring, my face looks healthier as well. Not just the result of bones, it’s like I just looked completely unwell in my face because of the inside. I hope that makes sense. An example would be like, pretend you consider them equally attractive – comparing Kim Kardashian to Jennifer Lopez (she smiles a fair amount). Even if they’re equal in looks, Kim’s face just looks repelling because it looks sad and hollow.

          3. You’re definitely on to something with the emotions or inner state affecting the face. I wonder if it leads to lasting changes or if it is transient. I was just watching a show where a very cute girl just lost a contest and was very disappointed. Her face immediately became much longer looking, and she stopping being so cute. “why the long face” comes to mind.

            As far as the celebs you mentioned, with kim kardashian and jennifer lopez, it is quite hard to say what is going on due to possible plastic surgeries and stuff like that. I think if you look up older pictures of them you might see that kim kardashian was actually the better looking one structurally/emotionally. That could just be my preference though. Maybe Lopez just had a better plastic surgeon recently, if indeed they both had surgeries (which I think they did). Neither is as attractive to me as their popularity would dictate though.

            For the people you mentioned from the 80s, I have seen people that remind me of them but it is definitely more rare today than it should be. It’s tempting to think that people are all trending towards the same face shape of being longer, ovalish, soft featured, etc. It at least feels that way.

          4. Holy hell, I actually just thought of something due to the fact that you brought up Kim Kardashian.

            I noticed her face is way longer now than it used to be, and I read that she uses Botox to get rid of wrinkles.

            I’m making an assumption here, this is a theory, that botox leads to having a longer face over time because by paralyzing the muscles, it keeps the muscles from being able to hold the bone in place, so that it starts to drop down and leads to a melting face.

            So botox, while making your face better looking in the short term, ruins your face over time.

            Not like I was ever planning on getting botox anyways..

  41. Help! Face pulling making the face longer!
    Pulling too hard?
    Or, tipping the maxilla down and back further (kinda like if you push up one end of a see-saw and the other end goes down)?

    Is this even possible?

        1. Sometimes when you pull you can make the face longer , especially if you do it incorrectly. Just experiment and find what works for you… i’ve messed up a few times but thankfully if you keep your teeth together in the long run you can erase that damage. Just keep trying.

        2. And actually now that I took another picture of my face I see that something that I have been experimenting with the past 2 weeks made my face longer and set my jaw back a bit. It’s not really a big deal, I’ll just eliminate the experiment and go back to what I know works for sure which is good tongue posture + teeth together.

          My guess for your scenario is that the see-saw idea you presented is the right one.. try and find a way to pull that the front goes up

          1. Oh and I guess i’ll mention what I was doing that made my face longer so no one has to repeat me: I was using my thumb to pull on my palate right where the incisive papilla is. I guess it pulled down more than out.

  42. OK, like a lot of you, I’m curious about this new method Neymar has developed. It got me to wondering what other strategies might be possible, and I thought rather than “face pulling” maybe he’s tried “face pushing.” What I mean is rather than pulling on the maxilla from the outside, maybe he’s created something that pushes up on the pallet from inside the mouth, mimicking proper tongue posture but with greater force over a greater time. I’m envisioning an appliance in two pieces with some kind of springs or compressible substance in between. The top piece would be molded to the pallet and upper teeth. The bottom piece would fit over the tongue and be molded to the bottom teeth. Biting together would exert an upward force on the maxilla, and would develop the masseter muscle like chewing. What do you think of this idea? Do you have any suggestions for how I could put together something like what I’ve described?

  43. Hey all,

    I can say that the method is more powerful and advanced than ever. I’ve been working vigorously for the past several months to improve every aspect of the method, including consulting with several cutting edge global researchers in the field, working with an engineering team, as well as improving the vectors and levels of force. The reason I have been working endlessly on the method is because my objective is full 100% correction in adults; that is, I am seeking to not just produce change in the Maxilla, but the entire maxillofacial complex and related bones, including the zygomatic, ethmoid, sphenoid, frontal, and palatine bones. I still need to implement a few small refinements to the method, but I will release more evidence of what I’m doing in the coming months. The private Facebook group for the method currently has 13 individuals from around the world that are all in some way taking steps to implement the method. Thanks everybody for the interest and I hope my work can help you all achieve your full potential. My philosophy, which is reflected in the Maxilla Method, is that for true correction, real skeletal expansion and advancement with proper vectors is required, as well as neuromuscular retraining.

    1. Thanks for an update Neymar. While I’m still skeptical of all this, it’s nice to see an update to what’s going on with it since CP hasn’t been posting any.

      The maxilla is talked about a lot on here, but what kind of changes are happening with the mandible? I think you mentioned it would shift forward, but will it lengthen? And are there any changes that could happen with the chin? Are any changes happening with the hyoid bone or the submental angle in general?

      Have you happened to hear from CP? Is everything alright with him?

    2. I was about to call you out for not even having a website, but I found it. The fact that it’s not even finished and is on wix.com (a build your own website for free type of thing) is questionable. Never mind under the “results” heading are the first names and ages of people and a list of their dental issues with no photos or proof of any kind that it isn’t all b.s. – hell, you even listed the client name “C.P.” like that’s some nickname he had in childhood, he mentions his real name on his YouTube channel. You don’t even have a picture of your own results and listed your name as NeymarJr10 – that’d look great on a business card. What’s it been, 7 months of touting this thing without any proof? It’s ridiculous.

      Everyone else can check it out for themselves: http://ckaveh7.wix.com/maxillamethod

        1. FAQ from the website:

          Q. Is surgery required?

          A. A surgical procedure by a maxillofacial surgeon is required to accomplish one component of the treatment, which typically can be performed under local anesthesia. For perspective, the procedure is less invasive than wisdom teeth removal.

          Q. Do I have to wear something externally during the day?

          A. No, no external device is necessary during the day. You can practice the Maxilla Method in the privacy of your own home.

          Q. How long until I see results?

          A. Results should be felt and experienced rapidly. Visual changes can occur fairly quickly as well. However, how long you must use the Maxilla Method in large part depends on your starting point and your objectives.

          Q. Will the results be sustainable?

          A. More data must be collected, however, theoretically, the treatment is designed to achieve sustainable results superior to traditional adult orthodontic treatments, including traditional orthognathic surgery.

          Q. Do I need a palate expander also?

          A. The treatment is designed to achieve palatal expansion along with forward advancement. However, a specifically designed expander for transverse expansion may be beneficial in severe cases before beginning the Maxilla Method.

          Q. My jaws are asymmetrical, will the Maxilla Method help me achieve symmetry?

          A. More data must be collected, however, early results show improvements in symmetry. Moreover, theoretically, the treatment is designed to promote symmetry.

          Q. How do I know if I am a good candidate for the Maxilla Method?

          A. You must consult with your health care provider to discuss the specific details of your case, but, theoretically, anyone who struggles to fit their posterior tongue in its anatomically correct position and is not achieving strong enough results with current methods is likely a strong candidate to benefit greatly from the Maxilla Method.


          Maxilla Method users have reported the following benefits:

          -Improved facial aesthetics

          -Improved nasal breathing

          -Improved dental arch

          -Reduction in anxiety and increase in tranquility

          -Improved posture/reduction in neck and back pain

          -Improved speech and pronunciation

          -Increase in energy levels and focus

        2. Japanophile, the website was deleted very quickly because it appears that Neymar’s “maxilla method” is a get rich quick scheme and he is preying on people with low self esteem. He has never producded credable scientific evidence of his method, yet he wants the vulnerable to pay him thousands of dollars for what, I’m not sure.

    3. @neymarjr10

      Well that’s funny because I’ve been refining my own method and I can say that the method is more powerful and advanced than ever. I’ve been working vigorously for the past several months to improve every aspect of the method, including consulting with several cutting edge global researchers in the field, working with an engineering team, as well as improving the vectors and levels of force. The reason I have been working endlessly on the method is because my objective is full 100% correction in adults; that is, I am seeking to not just produce change in the Maxilla, but the entire maxillofacial complex and related bones, including the zygomatic, ethmoid, sphenoid, frontal, and palatine bones. I still need to implement a few small refinements to the method, but I will release more evidence of what I’m doing in the coming months. The private Facebook group for the method currently has 13 individuals from around the world that are all in some way taking steps to implement the method. Thanks everybody for the interest and I hope my work can help you all achieve your full potential. My philosophy, which is reflected in the Maxilla Method, is that for true correction, real skeletal expansion and advancement with proper vectors is required, as well as neuromuscular retraining.

  44. Thank you @A. I was pulling by clenching down on the belt, with my back molars. Maybe I need to use the incisors instead, or try and replicate Plato’s device…

    You say that pulling with your thumbs, had a downward affect on you. I’ve also heard that certain kinds of face pulling headgear, has a forward but downward force, but I’m not sure what this means. It’s making me wary to try anything new, at the mo.

    1. Well it has been shown that clenching with something between your teeth has the potential to make the face longer. So your situation is different than I thought. Anything that goes between the teeth has the potential to lengthen the face so that is probably what was happening to you.

      As far as the belt goes the way to pull forward with it is to wrap it behind the molars like a pulley, not clench on it, and pull. I’ve never tried this and don’t know if it is good or bad, dangerous or awesome.

      When I clench on the belt I just use it to pull sideways, not forwards, in order to try and expand the arches a bit. Dunno if it works yet because it hasn’t been long enough. Seems to me like a natural movement, like if I were chewing on something really tough and wanted to tear it apart.

      1. Never knew clenching could do that. Maybe that’s where it all went wrong. My face (and neck!) did feel very tight when I was pulling, so maybe my body was resisting the force.

        Guess we’ve all got to be careful when doing these kinds of things, because of the law of unintended consequences. I mean, if headgear that the pro’s use can have a downward force when pulling forward (not sure how it happens), then it makes you wonder…

  45. Not sure why this comment has been awaiting moderation for 4 days while later comments have already been posted. I’ll try again:

    OK, like a lot of you, I’m curious about this new method Neymar has developed. It got me to wondering what other strategies might be possible, and I thought rather than “face pulling” maybe he’s tried “face pushing.” What I mean is rather than pulling on the maxilla from the outside, maybe he’s created something that pushes up on the pallet from inside the mouth, mimicking proper tongue posture but with greater force over a greater time. I’m envisioning an appliance in two pieces with some kind of springs or compressible substance in between. The top piece would be molded to the pallet and upper teeth. The bottom piece would fit over the tongue and be molded to the bottom teeth. Biting together would exert an upward force on the maxilla, and would develop the masseter muscle like chewing. What do you think of this idea? Do you have any suggestions for how I could put together something like what I’ve described?

  46. Just want to drop some links that I think are interesting and relevant:


    Above link talks about increase in masseter muscle tone due to increased dopamine. Very related.


    Interesting discussion in the comment section



    Two posts with photographic documentation of results of face changes.


    Those links I posted are just a piece of the puzzle of course.. I’m not claiming they are the whole thing or even trying to guess at how important they are, just something interesting to add to the bucket of knowledge that we are currently filling up.

  47. Just want to drop some links that I think are interesting and relevant:

    reddit [dot] com/r/NoFap/comments/4557×3/i_finally_found_some_evidence_that_nofap_makes/

    Above link talks about increase in masseter muscle tone due to increased dopamine. Very related.

    reddit [dot] com/r/NoFap/comments/4d04z9/my_face_looks_way_different/

    Interesting discussion in the comment section

    reddit [dot] com/r/NoFap/comments/4s5yu4/so_this_is_how_my_face_changed_over_3_months_on/

    reddit [dot] com/r/NoFap/comments/3ega1p/this_is_how_my_face_changed_over_7_months_on_nofap/

    Two posts with photographic documentation of results of face changes.


    Those links I posted are just a piece of the puzzle of course.. I’m not claiming they are the whole thing or even trying to guess at how important they are, just something interesting to add to the bucket of knowledge that we are currently filling up.

    ps: replace [dot] with . to make it into a link

      1. Hmm.. you’re 15, right? You could afford to pay the thousands to get this information as well as get the surgery? I highly doubt your parents would agree to let you get temporary anchorage devices, which also costs thousands of dollars. Most of your presence on this site has been a Neymar testimonial, although you have inherited his camera shyness since you’ve also produced zero proof. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are Neymar, which is something I’ve thought this whole time. His method must be great if he’d delete his site within the hour of me calling him out on it.

        1. I’m quite convinced you don’t need any appliances if you’re able to Mew. Only time.

          Use molars to bite up and backwards towards your eyes. Rest tongue up and forwards towards your nose. Create a vacuum between your lips and the tongue by sucking the lips against your bite so that the tongue can apply greater passive force towards the palate (which is now inside the vacuum). Results will come.

          If you feel like it, you can complement mewing with short bursts of high intensity pulling. Bite on a towel or a blanket and pull into various directions.

          1. By the way, I recently discovered the potential importance of up & backwards biting. Here’s why I think it’s more beneficial than it sounds at first:

            1. Jutting the mandible forwards seems to make the face longer over time. Those splints / pads for treating nocturnal bruxism causes it by similar mechanism.

            2. If you completely relax your head, you can kind of pull the head up and hold it there with the mandible alone by biting towards the eyes / skull. It’s almost impossible to do this by biting up and forward, as I was doing earlier.

            3. Doing it feels good in the cheeks.

            I strongly believe that biting backwards will NOT pull the maxilla backwards when the force is countered with tongue, but as always, only time will tell whether this matters or not. I will keep you posted in the following months. It would also be nice if we could migrate to some other forum like breakthematrix, as scrolling down here every time a new comment is posted gets quite frustrating.

        2. 1. Yes I’m 15, I’m raising $$$ with my online Fiverr business. Here’s a link to prove it. https://www.fiverr.com/copyfighter808

          You’ll see my face and a video of me talking.

          To prove this is me click the link below.


          2. My parents WILL let me do it. Why? Because they understand the science behind it and read about Neymar’s product.

          3. I didn’t produce any evidence for the eye color affirmations because I no longer believe they work. Placebo and suggestion are powerful tricks of the mind.

          1. Thanks for clearing that up I guess, but I don’t think anyone knows what Neymar looks like – how did your parents know it was credible information/logic if he doesn’t have pictures or any real info about the method or its results online? I’m assuming he’s the main guinea pig, so pictures of him must exist.

            I’m not talking about you, but seeing people praise Neymar on here for literally nothing is pretty irritating. Surely even as a 15 year old, you can understand why the idea of paying thousands of dollars for what is completely unknown sounds ridiculous. I saw on this WordPress dashboard that Neymar commented on the new membership article (I’m not a member anymore, so I can’t read it) but him deleting his site and can’t be bothered to reply to me calling him out on it just spells “unreliable source”.

            Yeah, belief is the most powerful thing you have. I’m 6 weeks into the eye changes and the results are still increasing, so it is indeed possible.

          2. If you aren’t Neymar are you his paid commission sales representitive? It seems your are always trying to pictch his product. What science behind the method are you looking at? Please share it with us. Neymar stated he was working with cutting edge global researchers and an engineering team, so I asked him to proived those names along with his credentials with scientific evidence so if one was interested, he/she could make an eductated decison, but I haven’t seen a response. Also, you posted prevously that you were dying and you were reaching out to strangers for help and not your parents and you are 15? CP should make this site for aduts only -18 and over.

          1. In response to Tessa Fields:

            First off, LOL! No, I’m not getting paid by Neymar. I’ll screenshot you BOTH my Paypal account’s activity and their history.

            I’m pitching the product because I’m passionate about curing ugliness worldwide and making everyone better looking. That’s my life’s greatest dream and purpose.

            The science and data can all be found at one particular website. Although, I’ll have to run it through Neymar if I can reveal the website.

            His engineers and facial experts are most likely from the Myofunctional group on Facebook. (Just my guess)

            Explaining the lack of reaching out to my parents: My mom is one of those “tough it out” type moms. I told her and that’s what she replied.

            My parents are divorced and my father lives in another state.

            At the time I had the extreme problem. My father was fast asleep because of a timezone difference.

            It was most definitely one the WORST experiences of my life. And, I’ve gone through poverty, sub-homelessness, childhood insomnia, chronic childhood nosebleed from vessels that didn’t form properly, as well as snapping my wrist until the bone stuck out. Although, I don’t consider myself a victim and I’m taking personal responsibility for everything that happens in my life. In fact, I’m glad most of these things happened because it gave me the drive to make a difference in myself and others.

            Onward: I’ll put a link for the picture of my wrist now that it’s healed and you can see a HUGE scar. Snapping my wrist until the bone stuck out and fragments all over was equal to the pain caused by that one problem.

            So, you can understand why I thought I was dying. (It went on for HOURS)

            PS: There’s going to be TONS of evidence coming out by Neymar very soon. He’s saving it up for one huge release. You can remain skeptical until then. And, I understand why you’re skeptical and where you are coming from. I understand that it’s rather hard to trust someone anonymous-online.

        1. Thanks for the painful criticism.

          It will help me toughen and learn to deal with critcisim in a more proficient manner in the future.

          Very grateful!

  48. Japanophile, I have always thought that Bobby Liu was Neymar. I have asked Neymar in a previous post that never made it to the blog, to provide the names and contact information of the cutting edge global researchers, the engineering team and his credentials so if one was interested in purchasing the method, one could make an educated decision. I concur with Catoo, that if you have tongue tie, all the mewing and appliances in the world will not provide the best outcome. I work for an oral surgeon that has performed many frenectomies for Posterior Tongue Tie in adults, allowing the patient to lift the tongue to the roof of the mouth effortlessly- once the tongue tie is released, the tongue gravitates to the roof of the mouth automatically. All the mewing, appliances, and whatever Neymar is pitching will be almost useless in adults if they have Posterior Tongue Tie. Also, DoodSweet is correct; all expansion devises are comparable & do the same thing. The secret here is really no secret at all- get a referral from a dentist and go see an oral surgeon for tongue tie diagnosis. Posterior Tongue Tie is almost always missed by dentists. Spend the $300 for a frenectomy and it will work better than any appliance or wild claims being peddled by a stranger without scientific studies.

    1. Hi Tessa,

      I had my dentist look at my tongue and she didn’t see tongue tie, but I still suspect it might be an issue from some of the symptoms mentioned above.

      Do you know of the best way to find someone to diagnose this properly?

      I live near Boston in the US.

      1. Jimminy,

        There is a great blog on the internet about tongue ties at drghaheri dot com/blog.

        He recommends this person in Boston:

        Dr. Fawn Rosenberg DMD, FAGD
        Lexington Smile Studio
        922 Waltham Street, Suite 202
        Lexington, MA 02421
        Tel -781 861 6008

        Also I sent you an email that you never replied to. I guess my email upset you in some way? At least that’s how I took it. Anyways good luck on your journey.

  49. Jimminy, Posterior Tongue Tie is missed more often than not by dentists. It just happened 6 months ago with my Aunt. She has developed sleep apnea and I told her she needed to see if she has tongue tie. She went to the dentist and he said no she didn’t have it. But, she insisted on a referral and went to an oral surgeon (a very conservative one) and he diagnosed her with Posterior Tongue Tie. My suggestion is go to an oral surgeon. Typically, I believe dentists are looking for the obvious Anterior Tongue Tie in children and are not familiar with Posterior Tongue Tie in adults. My aunt is in her 50s and since her frenectomy, she no longer needs to use her c pap machine. She stated that a week after the frenectomy, she was just lying on the couch watching television and her tongue just went to the roof of her mouth without conscious effort. Again, go see an oral surgeon and have him/her check you for Posterior Tongue Tie.

    1. I have to agree Tessa, my daughter had her frenectomy last week. The day before she had a dental cleaning done by the dentist she has had since she was 1year old. I had mentioned to the dentist “oh by the way, tomorrow she is having a frenectomy” The dentist looked at her tongue and said she saw no reason for it. Even though she is the dentist that told me that the tongue can do wonders at straightening her crowded teeth but could see no reason for the surgery. It is a cheap surgery 435$ with the consult. And about 80% covered under work insurance. I can see why the Myofunctional therapist recommended strengthening exercises to tone tongue muscle. It is because when you restrict muscle movement in any body part it will deteriorate and that is the same with tongue muscle.

  50. Catoo, in the 6 months since the frenectomy for posterior tongue tie, my aunt confirms that she not only doen’t need her c pap machine, but that her slightly crowded teeth have small gaps between them. She said that since the surgery, that the whole tongue “lives” on the roof of her mouth now. The tongue is the most powerful muscle in the body. My aunt did say that the surgery was painful the first day, but for the next four days the pain got better each day. Her only wish is that she had done it decades sooner.

  51. Bobby Liu, I find your post disturbing on several levels. Firstly, at the age of 15 shouldn’t your life’s dream be to have a career and be happy instead of “life’s dream is to cure ugliness?” How do you plan to cure uglieness; have you developed your own method? Currently, you are Neymars best pitch person. And why are you are pitching a method that you haven’t even tried! Perhaps Neymar should provide you the method without cost and you will then be able to speak to it from the perspective of having experience. You would then become one of his guinea pigs which would make 3, you, Neymar, and CP. CP hasn’t stepped up to say how the method is working for him. Also, you throw out speculation about Neymar stating, “His engineers and facial experts are most likely from the Myofunctional group on Facebook.” Then, you state, “The science and data can all be found at one particular website. Although, I’ll have to run it through Neymar if I can reveal the website.” Neymar should NOT be having conversations with a minor. There are liabilities attached to that, regardless of what your mother says. When you are an adult and want to make a life altering decisions about your health, you will want scientific data and you will want to speak with the engineers and the cutting edge global researchers. Not random people on a website making claims with no scientific evidence to back it up. And lastly, Bobby Liu, by ranting about your person issues, it appears that you have emotional struggles. I have a feeling you are like many people on this blog, you probably don’t have movie star looks, but you have decent looks and you think that all statements on this blog will turn you into a star. It won’t. It will turn you in to the best you can be which is exactly as Mike Mew stated. He looks better now because of correct tongue posture, but with all due respect, he doesn’t have movie star looks. You will be able to get correct tongue posture very easily, if you have posterior tongue tie get a frenectomy, which is a fraction of the cost of the method or expanders and your tongue will do all the work and there is scientific evidence for that

    1. First off, I forgot to mention that my other dream is to become the world’s greatest entrepreneur.

      In response to Tessa Fields: I’m not a normal kid.

      I don’t play video games, I avoid TV like the plague, I weight lift 3 days a week no matter what. I WEIGH my food by the gram to get perfect nutrition stats. I actually read books about business and self-development. AND I take action.

      My father is hopefully able to pull off a very successful travel agency. He already owns a successful wholesale produce store.

      How do I plan to cure ugliness? Spread the message all over the world with my resources, connections, and eventually get to the point where we can prevent this from happening. Plus, anyone suffering from CFD can use the maxilla method to get very close to their original genetic potential.

      1. This time you and I agree 100%, you are not normal and as I stated before, you are in need of help from a mental health professional. Good luck.

        1. Hi tessa fields.

          Thank you for your painful criticism.

          I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to deal with painful remarks and toughen up for future critcisim.

          And I’m sorry you have to demean younger people in order to feel more significant about yourself.


          1. Bobby Liu … When I suggested you needed to see a mental health professional it was due to your posts on the previous thread, Maxilla Protraction in Adults on 4/6/16. You were ranting that you were “considering ending this pain forever,” and also that you “considered suicide.” You were reaching out to CP for an answer to your medical issue (so glad CP didn’t take the bait) which you resolved in a few hours by according to your post, taking antibiotics for “multiple infections.” Then you were thanking strangers for saving your life (really?) on the thread and how you were going to use that pain to fuel the purchase of neymars product, (which most of your posts close with pitching neymars product). NOT that you were snapping your wrists until you created compound fractures (see 7/23/16 post)!! But, after that post, you only solidified for me the reason(s) that you need to see a mental health care professional. It seems you can’t even keep your stories straight and for that reason I find you less than honest, delusional and in desperate need of a mental health evaluation. The definition of demeaning is to lower in character, status or reputation. You have done that all by yourself in your posts.

  52. I think most people are rooted in the idea of self hatred and are hoping fixing their appearance is going to change that, but working from such a place is a highly inefficient way of getting any changes. If you’re working from a place of being fine with yourself as you are, you’re going to get way better changes, just because you’re not looking to the change to fix your ideas of yourself. Not to mention, when you are rooted in desperation and low self esteem, you are more likely to think nobody will ever like/accept you unless you change. There’s a good quote for that – “We don’t see the world as it is, we see it as we are”.

    1. Japanphile, I agree with you, but I also think that most people want to look the best that they can otherwise; we wouldn’t have mirrors in our homes. But, after reading many of the posts on this blog, my take away is that many of the people may be suffering from Body Dismorphic Disorder (BDD), including CP. Magazines print photos of stars and they themselves can’t even live up to the image because of the unrealistic retouching done to sell the magazine. Most of us have something we don’t like about our appearance, such as an uneven smile or eyes that are too close together or maybe even a crooked nose. And even though we may not like our imperfections, we don’t obsess about them and we don’t let them interfere with our day to day lives. But, people with BDD are preoccupied with their appearance causing depression and emotional stress. Lots of people undergo unnecessary plastic surgeries only to discover they are still unhappy which goes right back to your original statement, “We don’t see the world as it is, we see it as we are.” If any good happens from this blog, I hope that the adult readers will go to an oral surgeon and get checked for posterior tongue tie. If they have it, get a frenectomy and the outcome will be that the whole tongue including the posterior tongue will elevate to the roof of the mouth without effort at all which in turn will allow for a wider airway fixing or preventing sleep apnea and making for a better appearance; maybe not like your vision of the most beautiful/good looking person in the world, but the best that you can be.

  53. Whoever doubts Neymar,

    This is just for you.

    I’m going to break down EXACTLY how I know Neymar is legitimate with logic. (This is also what I told my parents to get them convinced)

    Piece of evidence #1:I’ve talked to 4 people who ACTUALLY bought the product.

    How do I know this? Simple. I did some expert analyzing and found Neymar’s group on Facebook. (Of course it’s private) But from the side view, I could see everyone in the group including CP, Neymar, and a couple non-familiar names.

    Now listen up: I analyzed all the profiles and some of them were (years old), this proves that unless Neymar planned this YEARS in advance. Those profiles are REAL people.

    I talked to them to ask if the product was legit and they all told me that it was interesting. But, and here’s the kicker. One of them even said that it might not work as well for some people so I have to get my face analyzed first. (or something like that)

    This is a CLEAR case of a negative downside. AND if these people were selling the product for Neymar, they would’ve only said positive things. Most of them acted quite indifferent.

    Evidence #2: I was vacationing with my father in the state Neymar lives in. (Of course I won’t say the name of the state because privacy for Neymar) How did I know he lived there? I asked him. He replied with the answer.

    Then, 2 months later, my father took me vacationing there. (Not to meet Neymar but to teach me entrepreneurship) So I emailed Neymar that I was in the state and he stated that he was willing to hang out with me. I offered to buy him “In and Out”, but he said refused and said he would buy me.

    Consider this: Neymar can’t be a con-artist because online con-artists aren’t the kind of people that would hang out and buy stuff for their customers.

    And this: Con artists don’t reveal their face, name, location, and other private information to their victims. Therefore, Neymar isn’t a con artist.

    Now, any questions?

    1. Bobby Liu, since you are the pitch person for Neymar, ask him to provide scientific evidence for his method along with the cutting edge global researchers and engineers contant information. To my knowledge, to date, there isn’t any and talking with 4 people doesn’t constitue scientific data.

  54. If you can get your tongue on the palate, but getting the back on the soft palate, feels a bit strained, could this be a mild posterior tongue tie? Or, just because the jaws are backwards?

    I need some sort of palate expansion, probably. Was thinking of getting a palate expander from bracesshop. But, if it turns out I have a tongue tie, getting that fixed would be a better investment, surely.

    1. It could be either, or both. Only way to know for sure if you have a tongue tie is to get a professional to look at it. But there are lots of resources online for diagnosing a tongue tie that can help you make a pretty good guess. Just search for something like ‘diagnose adult tongue tie’ or ‘do i have a tongue tie’ and even look at the pictures and see if it matches you. Or read the descriptions of the symptoms and see if you ever dealt with them.

      But if you have never had retractive orthodontics (I know you made a post earlier but I don’t remember if you did or not) and your maxilla is set back and your upper arch is small then there is a good chance that you have a tongue tie I would think. There are some doctors that will make a diagnosis online for you just by sending them pictures (people fly to see them), try to find someone like that. There’s a great blog online where the guy gives out recommendations as to who the best people are to see in different cities/geographic regions. You can find it here:

      drghaheri DOT com/blog/2014/4/3/laser-vs-scissors-how-to-choose-your-provider

      Check in the comments

      1. Thanks for your reply, A.

        Yep, I had retractive ortho, unfortunately. However, I don’t think I was ever much of a mouth breather as a child. I used to drink out of sippy cups when I was little, so it’s possible that this was the cause of my set back maxilla & narrow arches.

        But, I can’t have adopted good tongue posture, post sippy cup use, because things never improved. I do recall always instinctively, needing to chew things- I was always that kid who used to chew my sleeves or the collar of my shirt (!) and as a teen, I was always chewing gum.

        But, if it turns out I do have a tongue tie, it would explain a lot.

        1. L … realistically speaking, the only way to get a proper diagnosis for Posterior Tongue Tie is to visit an oral surgeon. Anterior Tongue Tie is easier to detect visually, but Posterior Tongue Tie is not. Step one before getting expanders would be to get a diagnosis from an oral surgeon. If you have Posterior Tongue Tie and it is released it allows the tongue to suck up onto the roof of the mouth, even if the palate is narrow, this happened to my aunt. Her arch after 6 months of the release is visibly wider. You can always get an expander after the release of the tongue, but the tongue is the strongest muscle in the body and you will start seeing results rather quickly.

          1. Thank you for your comment, Tessa. It’s encouraging to hear that your aunt saw improvements after only 6 months…just goes to show that the tongue can do wonders if it’s able to be in the right position.

            I’d like to see someone about it, but living in the UK, you need a GP’s referral to see any specialist. I’m worried that I won’t be able to justify asking, seen as it’s not a well known thing.. Same reason if I saw someone privately. I’d be worried that I was wasting their time, if it proves I do not have a tongue tie. I could ask a dentist about it, but it depends how knowledgeable they are on the subject, I suppose.

            Also, my mother has sleep apnea and is unable to breathe through her nose. I’ve been trying to get her to see someone about it, and check if she has a tongue tie. But, she doesn’t take things as seriously as she should…

          2. L,

            Being unable to breathe through the nose could be something other than dental/tongue issues, although having a very wide palate would help for sure. She might have swollen turbinates which is basically inflammation. Easily solvable by changing the diet up to avoid inflammatory foods (dead simple). Or she might have a deviated septum.

            But back to your teeth, did you have extractions?

        2. You can call a myofunctional therapist for referral to an oral surgeon. However the specialist that my daughter went to see was a dentist who specializes in frenectomy. If you never developed good tongue posture and good oral/swallow habits then a myofunctional therapy is good at training the tongue. It really is not about tongue training but mind training as most daily habits are subconcious. We do them without thinking. When practiced over and over then you do I without even thinking about it.

  55. L … Here in the US, some insurance companies require a referral from a dentist to see an oral surgeon/specialist, as was the case with aunt. Originally she went to the dentist for a diagnosis of tongue tie and he moved her tongue around and asked her to touch her tongue to the roof of her mouth and told her that she did not have tongue tie, but she insisted on a referral and after the exam. If the dentist isn’t trained, posterior tongue tie will be missed. She said she wished she would have gone to the surgeon decades ago and perhaps, she wouldn’t have developed sleep apnea. She reports good events since the release: two of her slightly overlapping teeth now have slight spaces between them and the most important part is that she doesn’t need her c pap machine. She also states that her tongue sucks to the roof of her mouth without out effort. If you read about people’s experiences on this blog, they are trying to force their tongue on the roof of their mouths, my aunt says there is no forcing involved once the tie is released – the tongue just sucks up on the roof of her mouth. She said that she can’t ever remember feeling the soft palate with her tongue, but now she can! You are NOT wasting anyone’s time if you go to the specialist and you don’t have tongue tie, you are the customer. But, I will tell you, many adults have tongue tie and don’t know it. In one of Mike Mew’s videos he is trying to train a woman to swallow correctly using water and it is difficult for her and I really wonder if it is difficult to swallow due to tongue tie. The bottom line is before purchasing any appliance or “method”, step one, go to an oral surgeon and get checked for posterior tongue tie.

    1. Tessa, it is good to hear that your aunt now has spaces between her what used to be crowded teeth. That is what my daughter who just had her frenectomy almost 2 weeks ago has. The myofunctuonal therapist recommended invisalign braces for her. I would probably go with some sort of jaw expander since she does not have crooked teeth, they are just crowded. It would save us so much money I that was not needed. So that is such great news to hear!

      1. Catoo, give your daughter at least 6 months of working with a myfunctional therapist before you make any decisions about an expander or invisalign. She’s already had the frenectomy and now her tongue will naturally gravitate to the roof of her mouth. That along with the therapist’s exercises and her guidance, I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised with her results at the end of 6 months. Her arch will be wider and her teeth will space out naturally. You are a very educated mother.

  56. Tongue tie is one of the first things I have my participants check for.

    One good indication is if you open your lower jaw all the way, hold it there, and try to reach the roof of your mouth with the tip of your tongue. If you struggle or can’t do it, big red flag.

    In fact, take it one step further, and check for both a tongue and lip tie!!

    However, freeing thr tongue or lips in adults will not spontaneously cause skeletal effects in adults–believe me. Even after many, many months any skeletal change will be insignificant.

    So while the tongue tie is an excellent and essential thing to address, it is far from a cure for CFD in adults. Rather, it is only the first baby step to put you on the path to proper soft tissue function

  57. Neymar, I have never heard the verbiage, “open your lower jaw all the way.” You must mean, open your mouth all the way, because it is the mandible that opens and closes the mouth, not the maxilla. My aunt was given the very test by the dentist that you describe; asking her to touch her tongue to the roof of the mouth and she was able to do so. Not easily, but she was able to do so. The dentist then declared her free of tongue tie. Upon closer examination by an oral surgeon, she was diagnosed with Posterior Tongue Tie. To date, there isn’t an appliance that causes spontaneous skeletal effects in adults or in children for that matter. With the tongue being the strongest muscle in the human body, I wouldn’t consider the release of tongue tie to be a baby step to proper tongue position. On the contrary, it is the most significant step in achieving health and beauty. Within 6 months of the release of tongue tie in my aunt, she has slight spaces between teeth and doesn’t need a c pap machine any longer. To date, you have been unable to provide any scientific evidence or contact information for the cutting edge global researchers and engineers that I am aware of for your “cure” for CFD in adults.

    1. thanks for your story, but I am talking from first-hand experience; I’ve had both a posterior tongue tie and upper/ lower lip tie corrected. Thanks for the patience & support, I’m working hard to release the website as soon as I can

      1. I work for an oral surgeon and have heard hundreds of testimonials from satisfied adults that have had tongue tie release and from the parents of children who have had frenectomies. Please visit Brian Palmer DDS regarding tongue tie, he is a credablie source and his information is backed up by decades of scientific data.

        1. Tessa,

          Do you have access to, and are willing/able to share photos taken both before and after, of people who have had frenectomies on a long time scale (many months or even some years)?

          If so can you go ahead and share them.

          1. A … The oral surgeon I work for does not take before and after pix of the patients because the frenectomies he prefoms is for the sake of health. Even if he did take before and after photos, HIPPA laws prevent would prevent me from posting patients pictures.

  58. Thanks all for your comments 🙂

    @A-Yes, I had extractions sadly. Anyway, I’ll pass on the info to her about possible deviated septum. As for her diet, it’s very pro-inflammatory, but she isn’t committed enough to change it, sadly.

    @Catoo- I agree. Seeing a myofunctional therapist would be useful. They may have a good idea of tongue restrictions, too…I’ll check out if there’s any near me.

    @Tessa- You’re right. Proper tongue posture is more important than any appliance. I’ll probably need upper and lower expanders, if it turns out that my tongue is ok. But, I’m hesitant to do anything until I get my tongue checked. Orthodontic treatment doesn’t come cheap, as we all well know…

    @Neymar- I didn’t know that trick. Is it normal to be able to reach the roof with the tip, if the mouth is open? I can’t do it…

    1. L … it is normal to open your mouth as wide as you can and touch the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth. If you can’t, it is indicitive of tongue tie, however, you still need to see an oral surgeron for a diagnosis. Here is a wealth of infomation, backed by scientific data for tongue tie: http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/Default.htm

      1. Yikes! If I open my mouth as wide as possible, my tongue tip is nowhere near the roof of my mouth. If I strain, it’s not even close!

        Thanks for the link…Will definitely check it out. Plus, try and see an oral surgeon, asap!

        1. L,

          I found the same thing for myself. If I open my mouth fully my tongue can’t get anywhere near the roof of my mouth, and what is more, when I try and move the tongue upwards, a giant crease/dimple forms in the middle of the tip (whale tail like). You can check yourself if this happens to you, it is supposed to be a sure sign of a tie. I noticed that my mother has the exact same thing but worse.

          1. I have the exact same thing with the ‘whale tail’ shape! Does anyone in your family have this, too? I’ve been doing some research, and there could be a genetic link, tied to methylation impairment, apparently… My parents can’t do it either, but they don’t think it’s a big deal, unfortunately.

      2. Hi Tessa,

        I had my frenectomy this afternoon.

        Any tips for a speedy recovery? It’s a little tender right now!

        In any case, I’m excited to see how this will help my progress.


        1. Jimminy, I am so happy for you. Please keep us up to date with your progress. All patients and my aunt included said after the numbing wore off the first night, she was in pain, but she was prescribed pain meds and it helped. She said everyday the pain got better and within 5 days, the worst pain was behind her. Don’t forget, you must do the exercises because the tissue can grow back. I think you will be amazed at how the release will affect you everyday life, such as: swallowing, talking, and if you have apnea, it will help with that too! Congrats!

          1. Thanks, Tessa.

            It was reading your posts that lead to me going to a specialist. My regular dentist didn’t detect any issues so I had abandoned the tongue tie route.

            I do have moderate to severe sleep apnea, so hopefully it does help. Do you feel it was just her tongue mobility that helped her apnea, or her airway opening over time?

        2. Hi Jimminy, I was not able to reply to your comment regarding soft tissue work as there was no reply button, so I will do it here. It is called cranial sacral therapy. Because of tongue tie some muscles in the tongue have weakened and are not functioning as they are supposed to. Muscles are connected to other tissue in lower and upper mouth, through the neck and down the back. The myofunctuonal therapist recommended that several weeks of tongue and facial exercise be done, including 2 sessions of cranial sacral therapy prior to tongue tie surgery. After surgery continue with tongue and facial exercises plu 2-3 more sessions of cranial sacral therapy. During this therapy which my daughter gets done by a CST licenced osteopath puts his fingers in her mouth, puts light pressure on areas that are needed to be massaged, loosened up or stretched. Also so head, neck work is done.

          1. One thing you can do is massage the area with vitamin E oil, My daughter was able to stick her fingers inside the triangle and massage the surgery area. It was the tongue muscles that hurt not the lasered tissue.

    1. Yup, she’s got it. And she is the only family near enough to me for me to check right now, but i’m sure there is some strong genetic link as you said.

      Interesting about the methylation component, I found some cool sites talking about it (unrelated to tongue ties). Going to read up a bit.

      1. Cool. Be sure to look up the MTHFR gene (actual abbreviation!) and midline defects, of which tongue ties manifest. Pretty interesting.

        1. Wow this is some very interesting reading. Thanks for pointing me in this direction.

          It looks like you can lessen the impact of the gene by eating and living well.

          Also I found a link that shows that for people with MTHFR Folic Acid is not tolerated like actual Folate is from real foods, so avoiding fortified foods is best.

          I’ll keep this in mind when I am about to have kids, hopefully I can spare them what I had to go through.

  59. Jimminy, my aunt stated that she had severe sleep apnea; blood oxegenation should be about 98 and hers was about 72. She stated that within a week after the surgery her tongue gravitated up to the roof of her mouth and it felt odd, but she was mindful about letting it rest there. She can now feel the soft palate with her tongue because she had posterior tongue tie release. Her husband used to nudge her because she was choking on her tongue, but now her tongue rests on the roof of her mouth and she doesn’t use her c pap. And although she had a narrow arch, I can see that it has widened because of her tongue. It will happen for you too.

  60. Anyone have any idea how to convince others, that hidden tongue ties, DO actually exist??

    If your tongue cannot reach the palate with the mouth wide open, and if the tongue becomes heart shaped, these are all indicative of tongue ties…This is what I’ve told others to look out for, when they are checking for themselves.

    Problem is, they think that unless you have a lisp, or an obvious deformity that’s visible from the outside, then it’s all a load of nonsense. SO frustrating!!

    Now, I’m hesitant to get mine checked out because they’ll only say I’m a hypochondriac, probably!

  61. L… perhaps what people are thinking of when they think of tongue tie which can cause a lisp and heart shaped tongue is anterior tongue tie. Any oral surgeon that examines you for tongue tie will not think you are a hypochondriac at all. Check out the link I have included: http://brianpalmerdds.com/

  62. Our therapist was trained by Joy Moeller who has some videos on YouTube. Search her name and you will find some good exercises.

  63. This post is in regards to palate expanders.

    Do you guys think that the more screws a palate expander has the better job it does at expanding the palate? I have seen so many types of palate expanders, and I do not know what features should one be looking for in one?

    What do you guys think?

  64. I just found your website yesterday when running a search for, “how to broaden my smile.” I have sat here literally crying with the realization of why I hate my pictures taken and why I don’t like talking to people straight on. Childhood orthodontics ruined my face. Every single word I read from the start explained what happened to me and my tears are such a strange mix of anger and joy! Joy in the hope that I may possibly be able to do something about it. I’m much older than you so my journey will need to be much shorter than yours for me to be able to justify the expense and time but your information and experience is a start. Every word and description make perfect and exact sense to me! I suppose you must have had four extractions, braces and a deformed face for it to make perfect sense as I have seen a few naysayers here. At least now I know I was not meant to look like this and it isn’t my fault! Thank you so much for putting yourself out there like this! My utmost respect to you for doing this for US! I can’t stop crying, OMG!

    I immediately saw the changes in your face on your last before/during pics and think you look great! I clearly see the changes and can identify with the need/desire to make those changes! (Again, I saw a naysayer or two so wanted to refute on your behalf!)

    I think I’m going to have a difficult time finding the right dentist in my area who will be willing to help me follow what you have done. Wish me luck, otherwise, looks like I will have to travel and the expense just goes up from there but if this can restore the face I was supposed to have it is worth calculating what I will need to make it all happen!

    Many blessings on you for your help, transparency, and progress!

  65. I was curious if you ever considered changing the page layout of your site? Its very well written; I love what youve got to say. But maybe you could a little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better. Youve got an awful lot of text for only having 1 or 2 images. Maybe you could space it out better?

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