the $100 Million dollar question is, is it really possible to get the maxilla to swing up and forwards in the face without surgery?
I have been wondering this myself, and although I do see progress being made with strengthening the jaw muscle and improving tongue posture, I still have days of doubt and wonder if surgery is the better option?
I will say that due to the potential complications of surgery, such as loss of feeling & potential undesirable results that’s almost irreversible, it makes that option quite a hell of a lot more difficult route to take especially if your structure is not grossly underdeveloped.
Dr. Mike Mew of orthotropics falls into the idea that you can create changes in the adult maxilla by fixing the underlying problem of muscle tone & tongue posture, if one has decent enough structure to be able to adopt correct tongue posture full time.
He does still wonder if sometimes jaw surgery is valid & necessarily if one has very underdeveloped maxilla that is almost impossible to rest the tongue on.
As he explains in this video.
Keep in mind I believe the type of jaw surgery is a big deal as well, I’ve seen many before & after jaw surgeries where I feel that they really didn’t do much for the facial aesthetics because they did not impact the maxilla upwards.
I’ve even seen some cases where the face looked longer after surgery than before.
I’ve also seen plenty of underbite cases, where all they did was bring the lower jaw back, and now the profile looks average, yes the patient is happy because they now look normal, but I would say they would have looked much better if the maxilla was brought forward instead because now they lost their jawline.
some jaw surgery cases like above are unbelievable, it did involve bringing the maxilla forward AND Up, which might be the key to great results.
The question I had was could tongue posture and strong muscles alone really make the bone shorter (impact the maxilla?)
below oral myology before & after pictures show that it is absolutely possible.
This one impressed me because even the she went from slightly open mouth to closed mouth, there is definite shortening of the distance between her eyes and top lip. In side view you can see why, the maxilla has rotated up & forwards a bit.
These results brought to you by these guys: https://www.facebook.com/DrHonorFranklin
Especially the first patient you can see that the maxilla has clearly rotated upwards, effectively making the mid-face shorter, & more pronounced jaw line as the mandible swung up & forwards with it. Remember that the condyles of lower jaw remodels very quickly and so it will come forwards overtime, not to mention the shape will also remodel and become flatter.
I know that Mike Mew has been experimenting with adult head gears, it will be interesting to see some of the before & after of that treatment.
It is still pretty amazing to see what a difference oral posture can make to the aesthetics of the face, even remodeling the jawline to a significant degree to rival some jaw surgery results.
I do think head posture is a big part of this, especially those that had more significant cranial dystrophy, getting the up right head posture with the occipial pulled up, will cause the tongue to put much stronger forces on the maxilla as it runs out of space.
Something I am becoming more aware of, is also body posture while sitting which all ties into having good head posture.
i recently purchased the Gockhale chair
Its a hefty $500 price tag but as I am sitting a lot everyday for business, I feel that having great body posture will help with productivity, oral posture & everything else throughout the day.
Got the chair today, it does make you sit up right straight and up right, can’t wait to start using it because I work on my computer for my business so my chair was making me real sore and I had to get up and stretch every hour.
Many people say body posture will cause shift in moods, personality & self esteem. Ms Gockhale certainly has great body posture which I believe causes her to be more attractive, when you become aware of these things, you see poor body posture all around you, people with slumped shoulders and forward head postures.
if oral posture can cause so much changes in the bone, then I certainly believe that great body posture will begin to cause a lot of changing to the physique / skeletal structure as well.
According to Ms. Gokhale, sitting properly throughout the day is the path to fixing the general body posture towards “ancestral posture” which grants
- broader shoulders (since they won’t be slumped forward like in most modern man)
- straight pain free backs
- better butts
- better body structure overall
here is a picture of Ms Gockhale’s husband that completely changed in body and became back / neck pain free
Other things:
I am getting extremely busy with my business lately (doing marketing for businesses), so I am not able to keep up with any emails anymore which I feel bad for but with this site taking off with all the visitors it just became too much for me to handle.
If you still want to get a hold of me, I am opening the opportunity for 1 hour consultation for $100, not sure how long I can do this for, but yea here’s the link: http://claimingpower.com/product/consultation/
I’m still passionate about all of this and this Friday I get my final real implant in and that will mark the completion of 100% reversal of extraction orthodontics. The results are satisfactory, I now have much wider smile and lip support but I feel that with the face that will continue to improve with self oral myology…
I’m also looking into cranial remodeling work that’s not NCR, more to report on soon.
-CP
Interesting the four Honor Franklin cases above, the first photo in each there is no lip seal. The first one, the jaw looks more definite but the nose looks a tiny bit bigger. The second one, quite subtle the changes. I would think the nose would look smaller if the maxilla moved up and out a bit. The third one in particular has had a shortening of the height between nose and lips, an overall reduction in vertical height from eyes to bottom of chin and widening of the face. There may be a little weight loss with the appearance of a more defined jaw. This one is the most impressive change.
Congrats on your Gockhale purchase, you may want to alternate that with time on a fit ball, great for stabilizers.
can’t wait to hear about the non NCR cranial remodeling work
and the fourth one, looks like a little girl growing up. 🙂
I’m the one who posted these pics on lookmaxing and sluthate… I’ll post more pics that I discovered on the internet very soon, such as this one 🙂
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12240059_1086991317986003_7242493648612087684_n.jpg?oh=cc2e9d55ad0045f324d7f157bcfe6a71&oe=57124B56
I’ve also discovered a study that reveals that mewing works on adult, to some extent: http://www.symbiosisonlinepublishing.com/dentistry-oraldisorders-therapy/dentistry-oraldisorders-therapy35.pdf
Great read as usual. I haven’t read too in-depth about the myofunctional therapy process yet, but isn’t it the same “lips together, teeth together, tongue on the roof of your mouth” + strengthening the jaw muscles and correcting swallowing function that the Mews speak of? If that’s the case, why are there seemingly so few examples of successful Orthotropic treatment on adults? I know the suggested age for OT treatment is very young and the degree of change on adults is up for debate, but the Honor Franklin patients shown here look at least 18 to me, (the first woman looks 30+) and yet their changes were very pronounced for what is expected elsewhere despite a similar approach to Orthotropics being taken. One of your older articles included a woman in her mid to late 40s who was only seeking myofunctional therapy for migraines and other body pain, and her maxilla still swung up and forwards despite her not being concerned with facial structure at all. I know that her problems were related to her face, as the improved mouth posture/function eventually resolved them, but I still find it weird that the adults who are mostly concerned with facial appearance and reversing old orthodontic work aren’t seeing such dramatic results. Any reason why that may be?
HI,
I have tried to contact you to cancel my montly membership access to your site. as i said previously, you make this very hard to do as you have no email address or other contact details. can you please cancel this so i am no longer making payments to you. I find this very unfair. I commented on another post a few weeks back asking you to cancel this membership.
celeste
Go to account > purchases > cancel subscription. I’ll likely cancel mine as well due to there not being any new exclusive articles since October.
Guys I have amazing news
CP has absolutely changed my life by opening my eyes to the dynamics of exactly what is going on with respect to my malocclusion! Before I came across this site I hadn’t heard of Orthotropics, even though I had visited literally dozens of orthodontist and surgeons from different cities across the U.S.! None of them knew what the hell they were talking about! Scary!
I went through multiple upper and lower expanders (bulky expanders at that), Invisalign, elastics, everything. Completely unacceptable results until CP explained it to me and opened my eyes!
I am extremely grateful. I hate to be the one to say it, but the fact of the matter is, appearance is everything!! We live in a world where simply having proper facial development (which would be so simple if we were all breastfed properly and chewed properly) is a huge determinant of how successful we are! Fact! Look at the scientific studies on appearance! Better job opportunities, stronger relationships and more healthy relationships, greater confidence, make more money, it goes on and on! Fact!
After suffering my whole life, through elementary school, middle school, high school, and 4 years of university with flat cheeks, and retruded jaws and all the social consequences that come with it, I have had enough and became determined to reach celebrity like results–no other choice!
I was using CPs advice, posture, gum chewing etc for a couple months and noticed some definite positive changes but not even close to as dramatic as I’d like. Simply not powerful enough for adults to achieve dramatic change, even CP says he doubts it on some days in this article!
Fortunately, after much exploration I discovered and invented an extremely innovative technique, which in in its entirety I guarantee no one else has ever tried, for maxillary protraction! Dramatically more effective than face pulling discussed on this website and other websites! I have experienced significantly stronger results than before I started my technique and would never go back to before–just not powerful enough! The results are still not dramatic as id like but it’s only been one month, I want to wait another couple more months to see what happens. I’m also in a very precarious financial situation because of all the treatments I’ve had and testing I’ve done with different procedures, so I am going to see if there is a way I can monetize my idea. Comment back on here if you guys are interested or have any ideas about how I could recoup some of my costs it took to discover this. CP comment back on this if you want to set up a phone call, I am a very smart guy and have a lot of experience in this field, you would be very happy to combine our knowledge
The procedure is only for the very dedicated–it will require around $2,000 for all the materials as well as a lot of willpower, but that’s the cost if you want stronger results than what you are getting with just posture and chewing!
I will check back on this forum to see how many people are interested etc and go from there.
For now, one thing you should all get your hands on is a Myobrace Lip Trainer… Extremely effective for training the lip and cheek muscles! A lot better than chewing gum in some respects, and the best when they compliment each other!
For those of you desperate out there, rest assured I have discovered something that while not a cure, will significantly improve your results! Hope to talk soon
By the way, I am not only achieving better results with my appearance, but my speech as dramatically improved, my back pain has improved, breathing has improved, anxiety has significantly diminished, and I have become more athletic. CP alludes to these benefits already, but just reiterating it! Still a ways to go! Good Luck!
By the way, I don’t think I check the email associated with this username, so you are going to have to comment here if you want to reach me. Good luck again, I hope my results continue to accelerate I will share with you
I’m interested too. How do we reach you?
I made a new email address clamingmaxilla@gmail.com where I can be reached regarding this treatment. I am thinking I can do 1 on 1 consultations explaining everything.
I am sorry if I have to charge for this, but please understand I had to take a significant amount of risk and resources to even discover this treatment–no orthodontist would prescribe it for me, well actually one said he would but he was going to charge me $7,500. I will show you how to do the treatment for a fraction of that.
This morning I woke up with more good results!! very subtle but noticeable! I would say at the very minimum twice as strong as just doing posture and chewing!
I used to have ‘sub-orbital depression’ meaning flatness below my eyes… my treatment is powerful enough to actually make a big change in this–my eyes look bigger and more normal! would take years, if ever, to do that with only chewing and posture!
typo!! ****
CLAIMING***maxilla@gmail.com
that is:
claimingmaxilla@gmail.com
I’d be interested in knowing about what you’re trying, Neymar, since posture and muscle tone seem to be the main recommendations, and there isn’t major success being reported from many people just doing that. (though the myofunctional therapy results look good, whatever methods they’re using)
BTW, does anyone else here have problems with chewing the gum? All of my chewing sessions have the same issues – fragments repeatedly getting hooked around my wisdom teeth, or they somehow slip into my throat and become stuck there for several hours. Having to check my mouth for tiny gum strands constantly disrupts my rhythm and makes it impossible to chew on autopilot. Also, I’m not sure how to describe this in a way that makes sense, but sometimes it feels as if small pieces of gum move past my cheek and are stuck inside my face under my ear. It’s happened with food countless times, too, over the years. I know this makes me sound like a mouth-breathing dunce who doesn’t know how to eat, but I’m interested in seeing if I’m alone in this. I’ve had braces, retractive headgear, elastics, and a few different retainers, and I somehow had more dedication to wearing those things as much as possible (when I thought they were helping me, obviously, they didn’t) than I am to chewing a piece of gum for an hour a day.
I am not sure what you are talking about…. never had this problem
but I will say if you have your wisdom teeth you are so lucky!!!
I really believe that is so crucial to keeping good facial form….
look at celebrities like Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus…. both of which have collapsing maxillas in their most recent pictures! I Swear take a look at their most recent pictures and you can tell a subtle collapse of the maxilla compared to when they were younger, both of them have had their wisdom teeth removed!
I wanted to ask CP what his thoughts were on the possibility of reimplanting Wisdom teeth! I am going to explore that possibility a year from now after I do my maxillary protraction for several months
Yes, I agree. Just feeling around for them with my tongue, the wisdom teeth seem to act like anchors for the cheekbones, especially if the maxilla was up and forwards. Anxiety was the main reason I didn’t get mine removed years ago, though I still wondered back then why we even grow those teeth when there’s “supposed to be” no room for most people these days. It’s also troubling to read about all the patients who had extractions done during orthodontic treatment, there should be little reason to not fit 32 teeth in a mouth. I see nothing wrong with getting wisdom implants, though as a finishing touch to everything else instead of the main goal, which appears to be what you’re talking about as well.
Justin Bieber’s face looks flatter now, like the lack of wisdom teeth helped make his cheeks sag. His face seems to have become longer, though I wouldn’t say he’s ever had too short of a head shape. I’m surprised he still looks so good, despite the long face and less prominent cheekbones. For years, I’ve thought he looked the best in 2011, though he didn’t get his wisdom teeth removed until mid-2015, this could just be personal opinion unless his posture changed dramatically. Interestingly enough, I just found out he started wearing Invisalign at the end of 2010, and did so for years. If the resting bite with those things is anything like clear retainers, could we assume his face would lengthen over time?
Miley used to look better, too. I remember thinking she was really attractive around 2007/8 despite having bad teeth. Her face also appears to have become longer and flatter, though I can’t say it’s something I would notice as easily if she didn’t get that horrible haircut, which kind of opens the door to nitpick at everything else.
__
I’ve been wondering this for a while – why are long, triangular faces considered so attractive? Poor explanation coming, but I’ll try. It’s like the short and square structure is the ideal, but these Ryan Gosling faces with a complete narrowing of the mandible (I think?) and chin are thought of as equally stunning by most people. I was interested in orthodontics for a while after my own treatment disappointed me, but I somehow never noticed or cared about face structure until recently, and only abandoning the belief in genetics solely influencing development within the past month or two.
Anyway, I thought Ryan Gosling was a great looking guy for a long time and I still think he looks great and his features triumph over any bad development he may have had, but his entire face is extremely long, especially the chin. Sometimes it looks like he has the modern melting face, except his melted then completely solidified. It may have been on the forum where someone said he’s considered attractive due to being portrayed as a heartthrob in movies and women bought into it. I think that’s a weak excuse, as I’m a straight guy who hasn’t seen any of his work and still think he looks good. I also don’t get tricked into thinking celebrities are more attractive for being famous, or need to be told who to like, so that’s not it with me.
Another example is where unlike Ryan, both the chin/lower jaws are tiny and the face slants down to the point where it looks like the mouth just barely has enough room to exist on the face. I see models with this type of look and don’t get if it’s only featured due to being exotic or what, it looks unhealthy to me. There’s a guy named Troye Sivan who built up a huge YouTube audience from lame videos that are forgiven because his audience thinks he’s good looking. Compared to a guy with a square face and strong jaws, I don’t really see how girls are into him. His face is totally flat and the maxilla is clearly down and back. He looks like he has a cold and would talk with a phlegmy voice, IMO.
Front: http://40.media.tumblr.com/f425633cc6f59f3ddbf2c4ab6d92f652/tumblr_mfip9dSMKu1rldosfo1_1280.png
Profile:
http://popcrush.com/files/2015/05/troye-sivan-630×420.png
Compare him to these guys, who are in the same YouTube demographic of pandering to teenage girls due to their looks. Maxillas are up and forwards, smiles are nice and broad, facial structure is a lot more short and blunt. I’m actually a twin as well and the same age as they are and used to wonder why they looked infinitely better than I do.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o4whWHeFOiw/maxresdefault.jpg
Very long tangent, but the forum isn’t very active and older articles have way smaller odds of getting a reply.
by the way CP, I use a treadmill desk which is absolutely phenomenal! probably something you want to look for!
the desk I use is from
https://www.myupdesk.com/
absolutely amazing!
the treadmill I use is the LifeSpan TR1200DT
amazing also!
And I use a monitor arm connected to my iMac with a VESA mount…
you cannot beat this desk set-up it is simply amazing.. can work for hours!
Just finished my consult with Neymar and wowwwwww, I am extremely excited to give it a try. I can’t believe this hasn’t been discussed here or anywhere else I can find, Neymar is way ahead of the curve. I had to sign something saying I can’t share the technique with other people, but it never said anything about sharing my results, so I will update you guys here with how it works, but so far the idea seems amazing. It will take around 1 month at least to even get started though because the nature of the treatment, stay tuned
guys, I am sorry for making so many comments but it’s only because I am so passionate about the magnitude of the positive changes I’ve been experiencing. I am just so grateful. One more improvement I have noticed undoubtebly, believe it or not, is I feel dramatically smarter and sharper since protracting my maxilla with my technique. I believe it has something to do with increased oxygen intake or better breathing/respiratory efficiency. I strongly believe the result has been a boost in brain power. So grateful. It must continue more and more.
CP what are your thoughts on this brain boost? Have you experienced it at all, and if you have, do you think my hypothesis is correct about the increased respiratory efficiency?
I just had a social event tonight, the first one since I started treatment using my advancement technique, and I absolutely killed it like never before. People were treating me with so much respect and just acting differently, people were more attracted to me. I took some pictures when I got home with my iPhone and I noticed my results are absolutely stunning. I’ll explain it this way:
CP was exactly, precisely correct when he said we should all be striving to achieve smiles like the Japanese singer that he posted about: EFFORTLESS SMILE IS WHAT WE ARE AFTER.
MY TREATMENT PLAN HAS ACCOMPLISHED THIS TO A DRAMATIC DEGREE.
I still have room for more improvement, but I am beginning to feel like a movie-star/actor. My confidence is soaring through the roof. I think I hit a turning point after a month of consistent treatment.
Sorry for ranting, but I figure you guys would appreciate that I am sharing it is possible. I feel like I cracked this thing and am so proud. will keep in touch
Sounds great, Neymar, and I like reading your posts. It’s a refreshing change from the general uncertainty and guess work going on. (not to take anything away from Claiming Power, I love this blog)
Whatever it is that you’re doing must have some type of validity with your results, because otherwise, I’m confused. What I don’t understand is why Mike Mew says that chewing and posture, if that’s all you can do, would take almost 10 years to achieve significant changes. There was an example somewhere, maybe here, of how you could press a finger into somebody’s head for years and theoretically put a hole through their skull. I don’t see why this isn’t possible, but there’s no real purpose to it. The way I see it, form and function should be changeable at different rates. Jaws that are forward, teeth that fit together perfectly, a skull that is aligned in a way that encourages optimal breathing, swallowing, speech, etc… that’s all related to function, it just happens to look great, too. Probably because good health and good looks are synonymous with each other. A hole in the skull, or the other examples used such as an arm crippled from being held in the air, or tribal people with elongated necks from wearing metal rings, none of those are related to better function. What’s the incentive for the body to adapt more rapidly to those pressures being put on it? The end result is destructive, so it should take a long time. Isn’t the human body pretty capable of repairing itself when required? I don’t see how guiding the maxilla into its proper spot is being compared to mangling bones for cosmetic reasons, even though I understand both are just using short force for long periods of time, there’s got to be more to it.
All I can tell you is that hundreds of hours of research and trial and error has led me to discover the most effective non-invasive technique in the world to advance the maxilla up and forward in the face, thereby allowing the mandible to ‘swing upwards’. The protocol I discovered is extremely innovative and promotes forward jaw growth, alignment of the jaws, and straightening of the teeth. I think if anyone sincerely reads the comments I have written on here, it will occur to them that I know what I am talking about. I am sure after I have a couple consultations with individuals they will post their reviews on here as ‘alldaykanye’ has apparently started to do. I am encouraging whoever consults with me to share their experience on here, although the intellectual property of my discovery must be promised to be preserved
Hello Neymarjr10,
This is very exciting! Can you please share before and after photos of yourself?
Thanks,
Susan
My inbox is inundated with interest, I am very happy about the number of people interested, but will give consultations on a first come first serve basis depending on availability in my schedule
CP contacted me via email today and gave me his phone number… I am going to get in touch with him and possibly share the treatment with him if he agrees to my intellectual property terms and other terms I lay out.
Hopefully if we can agree on terms, I can share with him, and he can post on here what he thinks.
The bottom line is I discovered the most genius treatment in the entire world, going to give everyone 100x better results than they would get otherwise.
I am smart enough though to know how powerful this is, and I intend to be compensated appropriately from my hundreds of hours of hard work and the risks I took to test various treatments and so forth. I am open to share with people, but they will have to agree to protect my intellectual property, and pay their share for being privileged to the information
Have you guys seen the movie “Limitless” with Bradley Cooper???
That’s how I feel with my advancing maxilla!!!! Swear!!!!!
I am really hoping CP will be able to agree to my terms so he can post an article on here about my cure. CP is one person who can truly understand the magnitude of my discovery, and I strongly encourage him to share his reaction with you guys, you all are going to be so excited. I basically found a cure at the end of the day, it may take several months, but we will all be able to get to where we want and need to be. Listen, once you start actually getting skeletal advancement, you realize how much more you need to go, and you start seeing all sorts of fascinating changes in your appearance, your eyes, your cheeks, your profile, you just start to look like a celebrity or model. It’s really remarkable. CP, sign my terms, and get on the phone with me ASAP and then share with the others your reaction.
BTW, I decided I will 100% get wisdom teeth implants. I know for a fact I am rapidly achieving enough space to fit them back there. Truly amazing. Can’t wait to have those buddies back and have full maxilla support and development. Wow. I am living in a dream.
one more point– it is really sad to see these dishonest maxillofacial surgeons pulling wisdom teeth way more frequently than is necessary, very shameful, but I am so grateful I am enlightened now and have the power to reverse it fully and be in the top percentile of humankind in terms of facial development. Very sad to see so many collapsing maxillas these days with the diet and lifestyle changes. Very sad. I feel like I am a thousand steps ahead of everyone else with my new technique!
By the way, did you guys check this article out?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151207131517.htm
More scientific support showing the collapse of maxillas in homo sapiens.
Listen, guys, do you want to hear something super profound? I believe CP is 1000% correct about his assertion that our ancestors were probably a lot better looking than us right now. If you really think it about it, it’s true. Having a collapsed maxilla would certainly be dramatically evolutionarily disadvantageous back then when life was much tougher and you relied on athleticism, strength and proper breathing. Believe me, now that I fixed my maxilla problem, I have way more strength to walk in the cold, for example. I used to have throat problems when I exercised sometimes from breathing through my mouth, now my mouth stays closed, even while I exercise. I am also now able to keep my mouth close walking around in the cold winter, and I feel so much stronger because keeping your mouth shut 100% of the time is just so much more relaxing, it’s hard to explain. But I know for a fact that having a collapsed maxilla would put you at the bottom of the totem pole for our ancestors when it was survival of the fittest, and so it’s likely that the people that did survive all were very beautiful by today’s terms.
Anyone watch the SOTU last night?
Now President Obama, we are talking about top flight maxilla development. That guy is on point with his facial development, very interesting
Left picture was taken at the same occasion as the middle one I don’t know how anyone can spot difference between these two.
Typical trick made by orthodontists to judge your rest muscle tone. Say ‘B’ then leave ur mouth as it is. Voila. But still, impressive.
Hi i am 16 years old.
I have narrow palate and overbite which i can’t rest my whole tongue on palate and when i try to rest my tongue on palate i have to bring my lower jaw forward and closing teeth together (2 front teeth with 2 lower teeth) but my face looks longer and weird when i try this also i want to know if i am doing it right and will this exercise makes my palate wider and fix the overbite by bringing my maxilla up and forward (tongue on the roof , lips closed , teeth together) overtime by practicing every day or not. Plzzz REPLY To this and help me i want to correct my posture of tongue and overbite at it is not too late. Thanks !