In the process of adult facial remodeling, one must remember that this process takes time & commitment. I am seeing comments from people that doubt this process of changing the face through muscle tone & oral posture because they aren’t seeing noticeable changes after few months.
Saying Le Fort jaw surgery is the only way but I am seeing on going changes to my own face by adopting Mew’s push tongue exercises to get that posterior tongue raised and using Mastiha gum to keep the jaw muscles strong.
And so many others have sent me messages saying that people around them are beginning to notice the changes in them.
Its understandable to want fast results because we live in an instant gratification culture, so for some the temptation to get jaw surgery is there.
For me it has not even been a year since I started to practice truly correct oral posture with posterior tongue on the roof and lips sealed.
Sometimes with other stuff going on in life, the focus goes on the back ground but even then when the attention goes back to the mouth, I can feel that my teeth is together (jaw closed) and the tongue is on the roof, so I just that the bone will continue to change.
Reminders for Good Oral Posture?
Mike’s video above reminded me the importance of reminders.
Simply hearing the message of jaw closed, lips sealed & tongue on the roof of the mouth over and over again… was how his dental assistance began to look better over time, as their maxilla began to up swing.
When you look around in real life and even in television, you will see that there a lot of people that tend to hang their mouth open often, you may notice that their face looks bit vertical what most don’t realize is that the face is more susceptible to change over time than we realize and people with those postures will continually get worse over time, I have seen this even among-st my close friends.
One friend in particular I won’t mention names, but he was always pretty good looking guy but now a days looks much more aged and the face has lengthened some what. I have noticed that when he is playing video games, he tends to hang his mouth open, you see that’s the thing with mouth posture. It’s difficult to detect it, because in presence of other people, most people do close their mouth. Which makes diagnosis difficult for doctors. The key is to find out what is that person doing when no one is looking, we may realize that more people are leaving their mouth open more often than we thought.
One of the tricks utilized by one MyoBrace doctor is to have the children wait in the waiting room with video games, and then watch the child’s oral posture while they are absorbed in the video game. This gives more accurate assessment of true resting oral posture.
John Mew posted this picture earlier today and it also reminds us that change can occur but it is not over night.
I am not here to decide whether jaw surgery is the best option for you or not, I personally have not even considered that option so I am not the proper person to ask.
I do know that my lower jaw has come forwards in the last 2-3 years since I started this journey.
How do I know this for sure?
I used to feel very awkward when I would speak because it felt like when I opened my mouth, my lower jaw was going back into my neck. Almost felt like while speaking I had no lower jaw or no chin or something, very strange feeling and I thought it was in my head but I come to find out it was not. The lower jaw really was too far back after my extraction orthodontics.
As I expanded my upper palate which allowed it to come forward more in the face and I expanded the front teeth forwards, which allowed my lower jaw to swing further forwards, I saw immediate improvements in this “weird loss of jaw feeling while talking” issue. And then it continued to improve after I learned about & practiced good oral posture of keeping the jaw together and muscle tone strong, which is overtime driving both jaws up and forwards more.
Now when I talk I no long feel that awkwardness which has contributed to bringing out a bit more of that extrovert side of my character.
I do realize that compared to our ancestor norms however or other more ideal modern faces, my jaws are still far down and back, but I still do not feel any urge for surgery… but I am feeling grateful for the improvements thus far and feel hopeful each time I see subtle improvements take place, hear other readers see improvements in themselves & listening to Mike Mew remind us that yes clearly change is possible in adults.
I am someone that has seen and felt the improvements in myself so I am encouraged to explore this journey on wards.
-CP
I have tipped back/in teeth.What changes on the face will i see if i get braces that push them forward?
you’ll see better results with correcting oral posture and swallowing pattenrs
Could you clarify what you mean by posterior tongue on the roof of the mouth? Do you mean the actual back of the tongue touching the palate by flipping the tongue backwards onto the palate, or is it the back of the front of the tongue sucking upwards and touching the palate?
back of the tongue, go to the blog post linked and watch Mike Mew’s video
I too think one can change substantially if someone is in their early 20s and correct their oral habits and body posture, but it will take 5-10 years depending on the severity or maybe more. Later in life I think its harder to get a radical improvement in the face.
If someone is young and concerned with their facial appearance, let’s say your are 19 years old and considering jaw surgery because you have a 5 mm underbite and you have the opportunity to do a lefort1 advancement and impaction. You now have 2 choices, either your do the surgery and mew afterwards or you dont do the surgery but mew.
If you take the surgery you could continue to work on the oral and body posture and continue to improve. The changes will be imedieate. You will feel happier because it’s now easier for you to get a job, friends and partner and you will not waste more of your time feeling sad because of you’re appearance hindering you from living a normal life.
Or you waste youre whole 20s, and when you’ve corrected your appearance (because you don’t want “quick fixes”) you will be soo draged in this mew cave soo at the time for you to come out you’re totally fucked up mentally.
I agree and disagree with you. I agree that CP shouldn’t be viewing surgery as “instant gratification” because a number of people who follow this blog are late twenties and beyond and that waiting for improvements from tongue posture wastes their remaining youth. They’ve waited long enough for an answer, but if surgery will jump start the result they shouldn’t be treated like heretics for it. Same thing if someone is late teens/early twenties and opts for surgery.
I disagree that the “Mew cave” will fuck you up mentally. If you choose not to socialize because of your face, that is your own damn fault. Plenty of average/ugly people can make friends and be confident within the world. Barring financial barriers, if you can’t leave the house or get involved in activities because you hate your face, you have some more important things to work through.
rb1993: I’ve seen your progress pics- the improvement is real- if an outside perspective helps. Everybody on here, including myself, wants results crazy fast. Oral posture definitely works; the catch is that most people think they are practicing good posture when they are not. I wasted my first 5 months, thinking I had my posterior-tongue touching and everything sealed, when it was actually far from touching. My point is: people on this forum are mouth-breathers and good oral-posture is a very foreign thing to all of us, for obvious reasons. It takes extreme amounts of determination and awareness to make progress with the “Mew” way. My guess is that the average ‘CP Blog’ reader is starting with a palate that is too narrow for proper application of tongue force. And, that is where the frustration come from. I know personally, it took insane focus over months of time for me to “manually” widen my palate enough to practice the techniques Mew teaches. It’s like weight-training. Countless people go to the gym everyday for years without seeing results. Does that mean the gym is a broken system? No. It means they are not getting the correct nutrition and have insufficient programming, exercises, etc. Anyways, I just wanted to say I admire your progress rb1993, and to everybody else: it’s about staying consistent, learning a little bit more everyday, and educating yourself to make the improvements you want to your own life. In some instances, that may mean surgery. But, don’t just give up, because it’s difficult.
Do you mind describing how you manually expanded your palate? Thank you in advance.
Okay so the point is that if you don’t have any serious gene defect, you will have a broad face that is up and forwards with a good occlusion if you can provide the right muscular factors (lips together, teeth together and tongue in the roof of the mouth together with good muscle tonus of the tounge and jaw biting muscles all time together with correct swallowing).
The question is then for many adults where the faces grown wrong: can it be corrected and how?
I think there can be improvements as Mike said in the video, but when comparing to trying to change the facial bones in individuals with active growth, it is still very hard.
I’m guessing that even though myofunctional therapy in itself can create results, it is not very effective and I think a better solution is to do myofunctional together with orthodontics.
I think myofunctional therapy is effective in short term (2-4 years) in correcting open bites even in adults by eliminating factors causing it and intrusive forces acting on the molars by keeping the mouth closed.
To widen the palate, even ALF treatment can take years, so if it is needed do semirapid or slow expansion.
And then I think that if you want the maxilla to come forward you should sleep with a protraction device, because the tounge and biting muscles usally relaxes and also to make use of the ~8 hours of higher growth hormone levels. And even with this I think it could take years to get a good result. And then this about anchorage loss and that there can be periodontal issues I guess if you’re doing this too much there will be negative effects too.
I think that mike said that it’s not uncommon for people to be missing an inch (25 mm), which is HUGE, and i don’t think this is achivable in adults by myofunctional alone.
I’m just wondering, how much in mm do you think it is possible to move the maxilla (A point) per year by correcting oral habits?
An inch? That sounds way too much, it’s more like in genetic syndrome range. I think that clinical recession is measured in 5-6mm range of deficit, while a difference between attractive and plain face is in the range of 2-3mm (facial fat layer thickness).
One thing to note about orthognatic surgery. It appears that it’s praised as granted problem solver, but I believe that it is not. By what I know, jaw surgery moves your bones, thus it doesn’t remodel them and remodeling on subtle level is the exact thing what makes a difference between attractive and plain face. It’s about getting that 2-3mm done right to get more balanced, symmetric and small featured face and there is no way that linear advancement of maxilla (or impaction/rotation) could give you that, neither could implants or fillers. I’ve seen dozens of plastic and jaw surgery results and by judging images of cases, 95{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of them suck and there are rarely any that are impressive. Almost all good results come from jaw surgery (that 5{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6}) and they involve a class III female patient with severe deformity on maxilla and/or lower jaw, who was already good looking under the hood, but looks were heavily degraded because of deformity. In such case lefort did a great job, but it wasn’t the procedure it made a patient attractive, rather it was significant deformity that hide one’s already present attractiveness and with jaw surgery, you remove that deformity. However, if deformity is spread into the midface as well, then it’s less likely that one would try to fix that with jaw surgery, since that would require the use of lefortII/III or zygomatic osteotomy and one simply doesn’t want those risky procedures. One could still get implants for those areas (infraorbital, malar implants), but they look ridiculous bad for my taste and I think that any implants work should be avoided in the sensitive area around eyes. Satisfaction rate on sites like realself should speak for their-selves as well.
However, jaw and plastic surgery are the only approaches that are somewhat proven to work, while I haven’t seen unbiased and objectively confirmed case (provided xrays), where significant improvement of facial appearance worked with non-invasive methods.
Maybe Mike refers to pogonion? I mean in high angle cases (vertical maxillary excess and retrusion) the effect on the mandible by swinging down can sometimes be dramatique i guess.
I’ve meassured my stone models during my 2 years intensivly mewing with a digital caliper and I can say that it has changes somewhat 0,5-0,6 mm. My tounge fits the palate but it’s tight. I think it’s more the soft tissue that’s adapting to the palate than the reverse that most people experience.
And I’ve thought about what you’ve said about implants and fillers and you’re right I guess in that there can be lots of complications. I’ve also thought about that idealy most would need to segment the whole zogomaxillary complex, but if the premaxillary area is underdeveloped maybe it still could be beneficial?
I’ve been chewing mastic gum and trying the oral posture since the beginning of the year, with no significant results. Realistically, I wasn’t expecting changes overnight and it’s work in progress (I hate how goofy I look as an adult though!) My tongue gets sore on the sides from narrow arches but also on the top when I’m pressing against the palate, which makes things more difficult. I think it’s because I need to constantly suck the tongue up there which leaves less moisture…Mews way has worked for some but maybe there are individuals who just don’t respond with the gentle approach for whatever reason.
why not look into palate expansion
As palette expansion widens your palette, will it make your Maxill move back, or just larger and give more space?
Hello CP, im a freshman from french guiana and i discovery your website 2 months ago and i see some results around my face, jawline less triangle, a debut of hollow cheek etc, but im here to expose my problem, around my mouth i have a sort of hypertrophy that cause me a gap between my mouth and my chin ( i dont have underbite) and a big mouth effect (forward mouth) so can you give me an answer or if someone know what is that that’s will be awsome ! Thank you !
hard to understand the situation from reading it alone
Hello, This is the muscle around my mouth which is bloated, i also seen in one of your article that could be adjusted by just oral appliances, so thank to you !
Botox and swallowing exercises.
Is there any hope left for me? I discovered that mouthbreathing was causing all my face problems about a year ago…. at the very late age of 19. I’ve been nose breathing with my tongue pushed to the top of my palate for a year now, with no improvements. I’m considering chewing tough gum in addition to continuing chewing jerky, but I think it’s too late. My mouth and jaw are the textbook example of “this is what happens when you mouth breathe”. Should I simply just get jaw surgery and get it over with? I would post the pictures I recently took, but it’s rather humiliating.
Never mind. I’m dumb.. for the past year, I haven’t doing it correctly. I made sure to nose breathe and never mouth breathe(Excluding when lifting), but I haven’t been pushing my tongue to the top of the mouth as hard as I can. I just push it up, but now that I’m using full force my jaw is actually sore.
I guess I’ll read the rest of the articles on breathing method, swallowing, and chewing gum/tough meat.
Ted- if you read my comment above, I am speaking to exactly this issue. Most people, myself included, think they are using correct oral posture, when in fact they are not. I spent six-months thinking I was doing everything right, but I finally realized the back of my tongue was not pushed up to my palate. Now that I’m aware of this, and have familiarized myself with what good oral posture feels like, I’m seeing amazing changes.
How much do you think you can widen the lower jaw just by chewing?
Love how natural this approach is, Effectively over a long period of time one achieves the primal rugged look ( don’t forget good looking equates to health, we are designed to find healthy indicators attractive) that our ancestors and the best looking models have. A comment for me would be that I know my tongue is in the correct position when I feel a paint tingling in the bones of my sinuses and that sort of area and also when I am chewing gum, the Greek stuff is great.
Quick question claimingpower, should your teeth actually touch in the jar closed position? I feel for people with narrow arches and the teeth inwards pointing this can be rather uncomfortable. Great work as always.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xKOx1MWtA << Here Mike Mew raises an interesting point about how a lot of people don't maintain good posture during sleep when they can't consciously control it, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me, how do I ensure I'm maintaining good posture when I'm asleep?
Hi is there a email where I can contact you for some personal advice ?
Love this site. I’m now looking into a palate expander to to help my poor tongue fit in its new position inside the narrow dental arch. Naturally it’s a challenge to find a suitable dentist for it. One of them told me that with adults you can only widen the arch through surgery, with appliances you’re not widening but only making the arch rounder. CP, aren’t your results telling otherwise – it’s not just the shape that’s changed but also the actual width?
Hi, I’m still trying to apply the correct tongue posture, would appreciate anyone’s help. Does a feeling of some pressing on my nose/sinuses mean it’s too much force? Plus it’s still quite hard for me to clench my teeth only SLIGHTLY when at rest while pushing my tongue on the palate a bit, it’s like: more pushing=stronger clenching.
Also, is it normal whilst swallowing saliva for my tongue to keep at the roof of my mouth but touch the molars and premolars of both jaws with it? I’m afraid I would put too much force on these teeth over time. And if swallowing is supposed to be done with your throat, is it right to feel some upward suction on mandible’s molars/premolars while moving the saliva to the roof of mouth?
@Ollie try sleeping on your back, read how to do it comfortably cause it’s not easy if you’re new to this. I’m into this whole thing only for a few days now and switched to sleeping on my back. I noticed that now when I wake up -which happens quite often during my sleep- I sometimes already have my tongue on the palate.
Feeling pressure/achiness around sinuses and eye sockets is a good thing, it means you are applying correct upward pressure to maxilla, which is going to lift it over time. I used to get more achiness, happens less often now. I also used to clench my jaws quite strongly in order to get my tongue pressed up on palate. I don’t think it’s a problem, you have to develop muscle tone in your tongue as well as jaws, so you should get a better balance of tongue and jaw pressure over time, I’ve found that to be so anyway.
wrg
Is there any evidence backed up with xrays that some adult actually remodeled facial bones in non-invasive way? This site is online for probably about two years, yet no result was delivered. I’m getting impatient and it looks like surgery will be only choice.
The evidence he has is in the members section. There has been some improvement with him.
I wonder what’s the scale of ‘some improvement’, especially if it is not backed up with xray imaging. Placebo effect and soft tissue changes must be excluded.
Short answer- I saw a stronger gonial angle in the before/after shots.
Long answer- you’re right. Without tangible evidence, this all could be a waste of time for anyone over the age of 16 or so. It’s why in my own blog I am keen on self-doubt; it could all just be me taking photos at different angles and lighting and there not being anything different.
It’s not working for me. No dental options available for me here other than braces… so I’m considering a surgical route.
how long have you been performing myotheraphy?
For the people doubting this process, like he has stated several times, muscles move bone, period. This is a FACT & goes for all bones.
I will keep this short and sweet by starting that Plato from the “FacePulling site” has X Ray proof of palate expansion/Face Pulling working. Dr.Mike mew did not believe in any of this beforehand and was a huge skeptic for any form of adult therapies and now he admits that he has seen improvement in not only his co wokers, but other patients who we’re being treated by other doctors with something similar to the “Face Pulling device” or the “FaceMax”/”Crane” and has also admitted to expanded many adults with only a few tough cases that he saw little to no results in, which he called a “rarity”
Also, search up some videos of the DNA appliance. Or even the cases the op has posted on here, including his own with molds to prove that his palate/intermoler with/lower jaw did in fact expand. Of you seriously are out to be a skeptic after this response (I just provided proof for each and every question you had) without even trying ano if this, then you should just quit while you’re at it. I mean for Gods sakes, people undergo facial changes all through life……, Take a look at one of the most famous/intelligent scientists in the world… (Forgot his name) but through his whole life, his face from normal to a piece of trash (he looked fantastic at prom compared to what he looks now) I would state his name here, but you guys either know who I am talkin about (because Dr.Mike Mew has made several example out of the guy) or you guys are smart enough to find him himself.
Btw, there is also an interesting study on adult monkeys undergoing jaw changes when their masseter muscles were remove, you should check that one out as well.
Anyways, good luck!
Does anyone here know Matthew Lewis ( Neville Longbottom from Harry Potter) He was a mouthbreather but he’s now a good looking guy. Can you explain what happened? He’s supposed to be suffer from craniofacial dystrophy but that’s not the case
Hello, I’ve been trying to practice proper oral posture for a while, but just today I realized that I had been slightly jutting my lower jaw forward so my top and bottom teeth can be more in alignment. Is this incorrect? Should I be pushing my jaw forward or should I keep it in it’s natural position while having the tongue on the roof of my mouth? Help would be greatly appreciated.
Hello, I asked a question earlier, but I am not sure if it send…..So, I’ll just ask again. I have been trying to correct my oral posture for a while and I have been getting my tongue up on the roof of my mouth, but I noticed earlier today that I have been subconsciously jutting my jaw…I never noticed but I think I’ve been doing this for as long as I can remember. I only move it forward enough so that my bite is aligned and I only have a very slight overbite. Will this hinder my results? Should I not jut my jaw forward while having the tongue on the roof of my mouth or should I try to align my bite and then put the tongue on the roof of my mouth? It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could answer this.
I would say do correct tongue posture with teeth together in position that feels most natural, as you would bite normally when your tongue is low in the mouth. It’s not an expert opinion, but I would imagine as long as the whole of your tongue (including posterior) is pushed up there and teeth are in contact, you will be applying the correct upward force to your maxilla for benefits.
Have you looked into the starecta method? http://www.starecta.com
Mike Mew says teeth+lips+tongue, but having the jaws come together when the maxilla is recessed/asymmetric is counterproductive since the body uses the position of the lower jaw to align the spine, thus a misaligned lower jaw position will actually result in muscle asymmetries/sceolosis, this in turn has fatal long term health consequenses as the bones will remodel into an asymmetric position over time.
ideally i think the jaw should be lowered into a position were it becomes perpendicular to the upper skull while proper posture of the tongue is maintained simulatnously. this way the neck can be straightened properly and the spine kept in a healthy balance. Then, when the maxilla has finally been remodeled into perfectly straight occlusion the jaws can be brought together again
So “genie” what is the point of chewing gum or doing any of these other exercises if the jaw is not properly aligned? Are we supposed to wait 5 years for the maxilla to advance before strengthening the lower jaw?
it’s all broscience with no single treated adult case presented. same goes with starecta. some of those who actually tried it to “improve looks”, reported longer faces, while other say how their foot size increased, along with the size of phallus (their claims) and how they can “feel better”. this reminds me on some delusional cult rather even remote dentistry and orthopedics.
my chin is not symmetrical, but like alot.
im 17 years old, my dad has it to, exactly the same shape of asymmetry. It’s the one thing in my all body that really grinds my nerves and that i dislike so much i would get surgery to fix it… I will try this method tho between the time i make the choice of doing it or not.. i really hope it works
sry 4 the bad english
My upper teeth midline has shifted to the left with braces on so now it’s misaligned. Is this because of my TMJ since my lower jaw leans to the left?
I had jaw surgery in October 2001. It has only just been brought to my attention (by another surgeon) that I have some facial asymmetry as a result of the surgery. In fact, my top lip and the area above my lip and below my nose – looks just like the photos above of Robert aged 15 – shown in Mouth Posture to move the Mid Face (Maxilla) Up for Facial Aesthetics. I had never noticed before but am now very aware of this. I have actually been practising “proper oral posture” for the past seventeen months – and also chewing the gum as recommended. Do you think that in time, I can recitfy this situation? The left side of my lip looks more normal than the right – which looks smaller and shorter… Also, as a result of some other recent surgery, in which a nerve was bruised, I am having trouble with the muscles above my top left lip – and therefore some difficulty with talking – and just noticed last week that the middle part of my lip – which should be in the middle of my top two top front teeth – is sitting over my front right front tooth. Should this return to normal when the muscle function improves? Any info. gratefully appreciated, as always!
Can Correct Oral Posture help regain facial symmetry – when asymmetry has been caused by jaw surgery? This happened to me. The surgery was in 2001. Another surgeon picked up on it recently. I had not even been aware of it – he had not noticed it either, until looking at the photos he took. Now, I am super aware of it – of course, the two sides of my top lip look different, too. I have been practicing the Correct Oral Posture for the past 19 months, anyway – so, what do you think?
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