I am 1.5 years into this process of reversing extraction orthodontics.
Estimating around 6 more months to go.
On the upper arch I have already re-opened 7 mm of space for bicuspids. (you need around 7.5mm of space for implant)
On the bottom I am around 6 mm.
So at this point I am already 90{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} there as far as re-opening the space for the bicuspids. And I’m 24 years old. Most orthos will tell you it can’t be done, but I am proof it can. They may tell you as an adult you have stopped growing, however the truth is even as adults humans never stop growing. We are constantly replacing our cells, and with appliances it is possible to create new bone growth at the suture that runs in the middle of the maxilla, gradually over time your palate itself actually gets wider.
I just came back from my monthly appointment, I am no longer using expanding appliances(I have been expanding for 1.5 years already), and now I am in braces bottom and top. These are not your traditional braces that uses heavy forces with rubber bands, these are similar to DAMON braces that uses light wire force with self-litigating brackets.
Changes I am noticing thus far…and other insights
- As we expanded the maxilla with the appliance, the maxilla (upper palate) came forward. My face looks better as a result. More cheekbones, wider face, better symmetry in the eyes, also more opening in the sinus cavity thus better breathing, my chronic stuffed left nostril is mostly gone now.
- All the numerous psychological issues, I had with my looks, that came after retraction orthodontics is getting resolved.
- we pushed the front teeth forwards, since they have been pushed back from trying to close the extraction spaces, as we moved the teeth forward and tipped them outwards, my lips have become fuller and more attractive.
- since I am able to breath through my nose now, I am becoming a nose breather instead of mouth breather. This is significant because it is when we chronically keep our mouth open to breathe, the face grows downwards, instead of forward. This is also the #1 cause of crooked teeth. (NOT nutrient deficiency or poor Genetics)
- Also as my palate has been expanded to more of normal size, I now have room to rest my tongue at the roof of the mouth when I have my mouth shut. This is very important… Once enough expansion has been done, it is crucial to adopt proper tongue posture, with tongue at the roof of mouth, this is nature’s natural retainer. if tongue is not resting at the roof, the teeth & palate will collapse again from pressure of the cheeks… to prevent this from happening we use retainers but that is a poor substitute for underlying problem which is we are keeping the tongue too low in the mouth.
- The tongue is pound for pound strongest muscle in the body. It’s force needs to be directed up and forward on the upper palate to have the profile of models, which is the maxilla placed very forward in the face, This is the seat of facial beauty and responsible for the high cheekbones, facial symmetry, perfect dental arches.
- Most cases of crooked teeth, a good orthodontist will also see that the maxilla is too far down and back in the face, which tells you that the tongue is not properly resting on the roof of the mouth to keep the maxilla up and forward which is the the cause of crooked teeth. Most orthodontists don’t know the cause of crooked teeth, they are treating symptoms without addressing the cause.
- As my maxilla came forward, so did my mandible (lower jaw), I now have better, more visible jaw line.
- As the tongue is doing its job and guiding the forward growth of face, the tongue has plenty room now in the mouth, the child will grow up without symptoms of snoring / sleep apnea which is caused by tongue having not enough space in the mouth and it falling into the airway (back of mouth) during sleep. The true cure for sleep apnea is to grow a better face (in kids) and as an adult well the goal is to remodel into a better face.
- Good looking faces are faces that grew horizontal, because the child had proper oral posture. (Mouth closed at rest with tongue on the roof of mouth and proper swallowing) more info here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvoX_wEtwDk
- So as my mouth is shut at rest/subconsciously and tongue resting on the roof of mouth, and sometimes pressing against the spot in the gums right above the two front teeth(alveolar ridge), I am noticing very subtle changes in the face, I presume this is my maxilla being pushed forward by the tongue.
- Other people use this technique to create forward growth in the maxilla. http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/
- I was doing the above technique for over a year but recently stopped since I stopped seeing drastic results and I got into braces so its not stable to do atm, however with above face pulling technique, my cheekbones did become more prominent as explained however this was before I understood the importance of the tongue. Right now I am only using my tongue to encourage more forward growth in the maxilla and it seems to be doing wonders. (If anything that site should be another evidence for the importance of forward growth in the maxilla however way we use to get that to happen, seems to have positive results on faces)
- Maxilla is the most important bone in the face when we are talking about creating better looking faces. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPp06x9BtEw
- What is wrong with current orthodontics is that they align teeth by pushing everything back, especially if they do extractions. This causes vertical growth in the face, NOT horizontal growth. So it is quite opposite of what you want when we are talking about creating better looking faces.
- If you look at movie actors and famous models, they have a face that are wide, and horizontal with their jawline almost horizontal, with prominent cheekbones and wide dental arch. If tongue is resting properly at the roof of mouth, the child most likely will never need braces and have perfectly formed dental arches. That is what the human skull is suppose to look like, and what our ancestors looked like, but since we adopted soft foods and many allergies in the modern diet, we get clogged noses as children or weak jaw muscles, we are more prone to leaving our mouths open at rest or during sleep, this is the worst thing for the face because now there is no tongue supporting maxilla to be up and forward in the face also the tongue is not there to push out the dental arch, on the contrary the cheeks will now begins to push in on the teeth and you have beginnings of teeth crowding. Eventually the maxilla will also begin to drop down and back which creates the long narrow face that is not as attractive as the horizontal shorter faces.
- Feed your baby tougher foods so that they can develop the jaw muscles from young, but now we feed them nothing but mushed foods. This is a big reason, why our ancestors that ate tougher foods have better teeth than we do.
- Malocclusion or crooked teeth was virtually non-existent in the ancient skulls found of our ancestors, archeologists will tell you that crooked teeth began right when we transitioned from hunter & gatherer society to agricultural society. The main difference is we went from eating tough foods to eating soft foods that allows stomach to be full easier such as cooked potato, rice,etc. With modernized diet things get worse because now we can intake high calories with even less chewing with things like smoothies, fruit juices, soda, and all the myriad of mushy/tender/soft foods we eat now. We began chewing a lot less. Dr. Mew estimates we do 5{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of the chewing our ancestors did. Bone adapts to usage as astronauts would tell you, few months in zero gravity means there is actual bone loss from lack of usage.
- Is it possible to change the jaws towards more ideal shape in adults? Dr. Mew thinks so. He says as an adult since he has committed himself to proper oral posture he is better looking now then he was 7 years ago.
- Since I adopted proper oral posture through the past year, I can tell you my face is definitely getting better looking.
- Stephen Hawking was once a normal man, but because of his diseases causes paralysis, causing Muscular dystrophy where the muscles just become weak. This has tremendous impact on the shape of skull. Another example that my doctor told me was that there was a girl that got into a bad car accident that caused her to be in a bed ridden, some form of paralysis that caused her to leave her mouth open, and unable to chew food. This made her jaw muscles weak and with her mouth open all the time, after a while there was tremendous negative effect on her entire face.
- Bone is like plastic, it is the muscles of the jaws and tongue that can positively or negatively effect your skull/face.
- If that much can go wrong in adults, then it should mean that if we adopt proper oral posture we can reshape our skulls towards more positive results as well.
- The number one key is to keep your mouth shut at rest, with teeth together (or near touching), and the tongue resting at the roof of your mouth. Also swallowing with tongue sealing the alveolar ridge spot in the gum(I also play with pressing on the alveolar ridge with my tongue), the spot right behind the two front teeth. Lastly, do more chewing! Jaw muscles (described as good muscle tone) is what will assist in keeping the tongue up there on the roof of mouth and help to keep the mouth shut during rest and sleep, also help to reshape the lower jaw towards more horizontal jaw if regularly exercised. It is not how hard you can bite but how often you use the jaw muscles through out the day that will help to reshape the jaw. To start I recommend remembering to chew your food thoroughly and incorporating tougher foods is always a plus also chewing gum more frequently is what Dr. Mew suggests, currently I use mouth guard to for jaw training for few minutes a day.
However all of this takes plenty of effort and dedication from the individual, I presume most will not go the distance, to test this out. Personally, I have great passion for this so I know I will put in the effort, and I will document the changes overtime on this blog.
This is all for now.
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I can’t thank you enough for sharing your experience. I am 50 with sleep apnea( I am active, healthy and not overweight) I didn’t sleep well for approx 5 years and never knew why, I even woke up when my heart stopped beating once a year! I had 4 teeth extracted at age 14 with orthodontics and wisdom teeth removed later. These symptoms you will hopefully not have to go through. I have been on a six month journey…first trying to get an appliance to keep my lower jaw forward during sleep to keep my tongue from falling back in my airway. Two dentists! and neither one knew what they were doing even though one was an “expert” sleep breathing dentist! I think God may have prevented that option because it is possibly just a bandaid, though I kept fighting for 4 months to get an apnea appliance that would work. I read your blog during that time and have seen one dentist for orthotropics….except, she said she would bury the extra space from expanding “in back somewhere”. I Don’t think she understands the concept of expanding the mandible forward! I’m about to go see an orthodontist to see if he has any research in this area or knows someone in my area Dallas/Ft Worth going this way of orthotropics and inplants to replace the extractions. Please keep sharing! It makes sense to me. I watched the youtube link you posted of the young Dr Mew about tongue in roof of mouth (my front teeth have moved forward in just 2 hours). This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKvk6Ffq9Ug from Dr. Hang I watch with conviction that I can get similar results going the route you have. thanks man! Kerry
Hi Kerry,
I’m in Fort Worth and I found a dentist in Keller who practices Orthotropics and is trained by Dr. Hang. I’m 51 years old and as a teen had my four bicuspid molars removed before I got braces which pushed everything back. I’m starting to have TMJ issues in my jaw. The dentist is Dr. Tamara Gray and she started me in a sagittal device which is currently pushing my front teeth forward. We’ll be recreating the space where my bicuspids used to be and widening my smile with an expander. I’ll have the option to either get implants or move the newly created spaces to the back of my smile and skip the implants. Just wanted to give you this information in case you’re still looking for help with your situation. (You mention that you saw an Orthotropist so possibly it was Dr. Gray?) Best wishes to you! Brenda Jones
OMG! I am in Dallas and I have been crying for two days, since finding this site! Tears of anger and hope! I am in Dallas and want to schedule an appointment right away! How has your experience been with Dr. Gray? I am 48 years old and had four extractions, braces and a disfigured face/smile since then. I hate having my pic taken and don’t like talking to people face-to-face.
I want reverse extractions, broadened arch, implants and my maxilla pulled forward causing my mandible to pull forward and sit properly as was meant to be! Can she accomplish this for me? I would love to save the expense of flying somewhere to have all this accomplished!
Any feedback you may provide is greatly appreciated!
Hi I really relate to everything you posted on here. I had 4 teeth removed and I have been trying proper oral posture as well but it doesn’t seem to be having the effect of forward growth that opening up my extraction spaces would probably have. I was wondering whether you were able to introduce this procedure to a regular orthodontist or did you have to look hard for a specialist? Also I was wondering how much the cost was for you. Good luck on your treatment.
I had to look quite a while before I found the ideal orthodontist for me. I went to 8 consultations before finding one that I liked.
The whole cost of treatment has been around $7000 which I make monthly payments on.
Hi, would you mind sharing who you went to for treatment? Was it Dr. Mew? Because from my research, the only two orthodontists in the world right now that seem to have extensive experience with people like us is Dr. hang and Dr. mew, so I’m just wondering whether you went to either of them or found someone else? Thanks!
found Dr. Gibbs in Michigan that’s been working with Dr. Mew since mid-late 1980’s.
his office is:
260 Jefferson Ave Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503 Tel. (616) 459-1267
Can you tell me the name of the orthodontist that you used? Do you know of any in the NY area or even NJ?
Thank you so much for sharing the cost! That is a big help and though prices can vary greatly from place-to-place and circumstance-to-circumstance it helps give a marker to start with.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. May I ask the name of the orthodontist that it’s treating you? I am in a terrible situation I cannot chew at all and am hoping very much to have my previous orthodontic extractions reversed. Please respond if you can with details of of your orthodontist.
Thank you.
Frances
Dr. Gibbs from Grand Rapids, Michigan
He is partly retired orthodontist that has worked with Dr. John Mew and his son Dr. Mike Mew the founders of Orthotropics.
he works out of the below office:
John Stepanovich, DDS
General Dentist
260 Jefferson Ave
Grand Rapids, MI 49503
Tel. (616) 459-1267
Thank you so much.
Good luck with the rest of your treatment. I live in the UK and it’s hard to find any help here.
Frances
Thank you so much for the details of you orthodontist. I live in London UK and it’s been hard trying to get help and my mouth is a complete mess. I’m only 26 but I have been on a liquid and mushy food diet that you just have to swallow for 4 years now and I don’t ever look in the mirror. I have read about Dr John Mew and his son and the Mew clinic where Dr Mike Mew works is actually in London so I think i will try there.
Thank you again.
Good luck with the rest of your treatment.
Frances
I would love to see pictures! Please show your progress! I think I may have to do the same thing…
I had 4 teeth extracted in 2007 when I was younger too. Every year til this day I regret taking them out. For as long as I can remember, every single day I have to blow my nose from my left nostril because it is always congested! I looked at your first bullet point and I was so surprised that I’m congested is because of my teeth. I definitely want to reverse the process and open my extraction spaces up. I wish it wasn’t so expensive and be 2 years worth the process. 🙁
once I am done with process I may publish pictures to my newsletter list, I don’t fancy my pictures being all over google images.
I am sorry to hear you are having congestion problems, I had the same problem of one of my nostrils being chronically congested, re-expanding the palate helped tremendously to the point where I’m now at a place where both nostrils now are congestion free 90{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of the time… but I feel it really started helping after I began practicing proper tongue posture.
It may be possible for you to begin expanding your palate using your tongue alone. Try practicing keeping your tongue on the roof of the mouth as often as you can remember throughout the day. Also look into practicing proper swallowing patterns, view the tongue as your natural palate expander and see what happens.
I’ve been looking here and there this blog and ones like it. Breakthemaxtrix.com Mike Mews work and I’ve gradually built up an overall picture which has lead me to devoting myself to correcting swallowing, tongue posture, overall posture chewing tough food or objects to build muscle tone in my jaw muscles. I’m managing to keep my mouth closed all night with my teeth touching 95{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of the time. Some nights I still struggle a little, but it is early days. Those nights I struggle I do not sleep well. I wake up as I’m falling asleep due to my jaw becoming relaxed and my teeth falling apart but I’m sure this problem will eventually disappear. I think I’m getting my swallow right for the first time in my life lately as every time I swallow now it seems to be sucking my sinus clear of mucus.
Awesome information on this blog truly life changing, hopefully this type of information becomes orthodox in the future. It makes so much sense.
Fascinating, obviously not the content that I am already quite familiar with but that there is a site out there with a section all about me. I was aware of this site;
http://paleoperiodical.com/2013/03/18/resetting-my-jaw/
However yours is much more in depth and you show and very good understanding of what we are trying to achieve. I posted your site on my personal FB page and a friend said that I should hire you, which if money were no option I would, although it is good to have someone independant talking about what we are trying to do.
Thank you for your hard work and effort, it is at times a thankless task, so I thought that I would take the time and thank you. If there were 10 more people like you out there then things would really start to role, as I am sure they will in time. Do feel free to contact me and I wish you all the best.
Best wishes,
Mike
It is really kind of you to post here! I have been watching your videos for two days now – though lots of tears of anger and hope at what childhood extractions and braces have done to my face! I am excited about the possibilities!
THANK YOU!
*through, not though
Hello CP,
I love your blog and the information is eye opening! I just have a question/concern: what are your thoughts on implant safety? I know it sounds great to just put four implants to solve the problem but what about autoimmune issues?
Hal Huggings has stressed over and over about foreign objects in the body. He states that implants will cause autoimmune issues, not if, but when. He said it could take as long as ten years for side effects to show up.
Metal in the jaw bone does not sound ideal, and zirconium is not as safe either. Hal states that most of the zirconium implants are made out of aluminum.
I would really benefit from this whole reverse extraction but now I have safety concerns. Now I have to choose whether I want to look good, breathe well, and solve TMD issues. Or, do I gamble with autoimmune like symptoms later on in life and end up having to take the implants out and go through ortho. work again.
Please share your thoughts, actually I would love to hear any of your readers thoughts on this safety concern.
~Regards
Kat
sorry for the delay in getting back to you, been quite busy.
Yes I hear what you are saying, I have not looked into this work by Hal Huggings.
Fake teeth won’t be good as the real, but you have to weigh in the good vs. the bad.
I have not had time to look into this autoimmune disorder issue, my general thought was people seem to get implants and they do just fine. are there specific case studies? how is this guy basing his theories?
Now I asked my oral surgeon about something similar, if implants could mess up body’s meridians. He told me implants are titanium which is not magnetic like Iron so he thinks it shouldn’t affect that.
This is not much but it is a start. I know Dr. Huggings is coming out with a new book where he goes into detail about implants. Also, did you check to make sure you did not have have cavitations in your jaw bone (previous extraction sites). You might want to check before putting metal objects in those extracted sites.
http://biologicaldentalhealth.com/component/content/article/105.html
http://www.thenaturalrecoveryplan.com/articles/Dr-Hal-Huggins-on-Dental-Implants-and-Bone-Grafts.html
Stay healthy,
Kat 🙂
Hey, for those of you worried about autoimmune issues with implants, that is what I was wondering about too before I start the reversal process. Basically titanium isn’t the best thing to put in your mouth, because metal can leach out, etc, that’s same reasoning as to why you don’t want mercury/amalgam fillings. HOWEVER, there IS a solution-Zirconium/ceramic implants. I’ve done extensive research are the pros and cons of titanium and zirconium and it basically they both osteointegrate just as well, the problems they were having with the zirconium in the beginning when they first came out is that implantologist/oral surgeons weren’t placing them right, as it takes a next level of expertise to implant zirconiums. But I’ve talked with other dentists and read up that this issue is an issue of the past, as zirconium is just as successful as titanium. Secondly, the radioactivity of ziconium was on the order of 5.3-ish (don’t know the units), and natural bone is about 3.5, so as you can see zirconium is pretty close to the natural bone in terms of that and are biologically inert-meaning they do not cause immune reactions (autoimmune). Zirconium implants are more $$, but I think it’s worth it to protect your overall health which you are trying to improve by the whole reversal process anyways.
Bridget this is extremely helpful thank you. I will keep this in mind.
Hi, I too am considering expanding the maxilla after having 4 bicuspids extracted as a teenager. What type of expansion appliance did you use? Did you use it for 1.5 years to get the expansion? I have been told a schwarz could work for me. Has anyone used the ALF for expanding the maxilla with past bicuspids extractions and retraction ortho? what about the DNA daytime nighttime appliance or the Homeoblock appliance? Is it possible to expand and move the maxilla forward without making spaces where the bicuspids were? Also, you had written that your mandible moved forward when the maxilla moved forward. I have a prominent chin already, so that could be a problem..Any thoughts on that Thanks
I am so glad that everything workout for you, I am too in the reversal process using the Alf Appliance top and bottom. I have doubts about the Alf because I feel that I need a lot of movement. (forward n wider) I don’t know if It will work for me. My case is very complex. my face is narrow, flat, and with no balance. I am so depressed right know that I hate to look myself in the mirror.
I hope everything goes well with me too.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
What type of appliance did you use?
biobloc stage 1 of orthotropics, and then fixed brackets (self-litgating) with coil springs to regain the bicuspid spaces.
Claimingpower, I joined your group & was wondering if I could e-mail you a question I had? I know that you are busy, (I am in medical school so I know how that is!!) so I wouldn’t bombard you with tons, you’ve answered pretty much everything in your blog. However since I am flying out from NY to meet with your doctor, Dr. Gibbs in less than a week, I just had 1 or 2 questions about his process as I am deciding between him and Dr. Hang and ultimately what I think would work best for my situation. Ok, here is my email if you want to message me first so I can reply: bdelashmette@yahoo.com. Thanks so much for your time and looking forward to hearing from you!
Hello Melania,
Just curios why they decided to go with the ALF appliance. Do you have cranial distortions or any skull problems?
I had the same problem that CP had, the bicuspids were removed and now I am in the process of trying to resolve the problem.
I am seeing someone by the name of Dr. Gerald Smith who recommended the ALF due to cranial distortions. He said you have to fix the cranial distortions first and then work on the teeth. He is very insightful, and he has loads of experience with cleaning up previous work done by narrow minded orthodontists.
I believe Ian Hedley (patient zero) is getting his previous extractions reversed by Dr. Smith.
I had the same question about ALF too, will it help with my narrow palette? Dr. Smith believes you have to smooth the kinks out in skull and then work on the teeth. He said you can’t work on teeth with a distorted skull, it will defeat the purpose.
Let me know what you decide to do and if you decide to go with ALF appliance?
Good luck,
Badgerlife 😉
Hi Badgerforlife,
Yes, I decided to go with the Alf myself. I have been wearing the Alf for over 2 months, and I have seen positive profile changes.
Email me! To tell you my whole story 🙂
Good look with your treatment , and please let us know how everything goes, and yes go with the Alf it really works!
Forgot to mention, I didn’t want to fix the cranial distort ions and all the stuff.
Hi,
I accidently found this blog while searching on the internet. I am young spanish guy from Barcelona, I am 25. Since exactly one week ago I started my treatment in order to reopen my bicuspid extractions done when I was 14,5 years old. I’m under a very good dentist who took direct lessons from Dr.Hang in the USA.
Looks like there is other people like me out there. I read all the commentaries and I want to explain my case.
I had since 6 or 7 years the feeling that something was wrong in my mouth, like not enough space for my tongue firstly. This feeling grew and I realize there was really something wrong. It got difficult to finish my university degree, but I always thought to myself “come on, the last push, you are gonna find a solution”. Next 2 years I had really bad headaches, I could not bite properly anymore, my muscles from my mouth got really tense, and I had a big tension around my mouth that expanded to all my head. I could and I am still not able to work and concentrate good. I had bad sleep because of the pain in my jaw.
So I started to do a big research on the internet, and I went to see a total of 16 dentist and doctors from the jaw (yes, it is a lot, but I really don’t care cause I felt really bad), 4 psychologist, 3 Logopedists and 1 Osteopahtic doctor (it is written like this?).
I had to do all this by myself, my family or my friends could not understand my problem, only my girlfriend was really aware. I think, I had to deal with depression many years (although I am aware I tend to be an emotional person).
I don’t feel bad about how I look myself on the mirror (though I am pretty sure my profile changed and my jaw when backwards after my 1st treatment as a teenager). But the pain was literally making me feel usless, so I decided to do this treatment that is gonna cost me 4.800 euros + Implants + Retainers. My parents are gonna pay, I can’t.
I do sports (and helps a bit, specially swimming, but doesn’t solve the problem). Psychologists told me very easily to take antidepressive. Everybody who didn’t care that much told me to take pills. I did this for 3 months.
My jaw was popping all the time, harder and harder. I made many different scanners and radiographies. In the end, this dentsist I’m with now and the Osteopathic doctor we concluded (with proofs other could not see) that my previous orthodontic treatment was actually bad and therefore, was causing mainly this problems.
The idea is to push forward the jaw some milimitters in order “liberate” the jaw. Sounds very logical to me. I would like to share with you the results when I’m more advanced, cause I have plenty of images.
I hope this is gonna work, so far my popping when a bit away, but I still feel stressed to go under all this.
I saw positive commentaries about people who got this treatment. I also can’t breath properly with my nose, I definitely don’t have enough space for my tonge in the palate and for that I slightly speak a bit bad (you don’t notice at first but yes, I have problems to move my tongue when I speak). So far the doctor said it’s not necessary to expand the palate, he has enough room, but I have my doubts, and I think also to expand a bit the palate would solve my last problems and get everything to equilibrium (because muscles, bones, and everything is connected).
I hope everything goes well. I will keep contact here, and show results.
Gerard, estas llendo en la clinica Padros?
Me siento exactamente como tu y voy a empezar el tratamiento reversing en breve.
por favor, ponte en contacto conmigo, me gustaria hablarte!
Hola Dafne, sí, estoy con el doctor Padrós! Ponte en contacto conmigo, escribeme un mail a supergeradito@gmail.com y si quieres quedamos para hablarlo. Un saludo!
Hey Gerard I’m 24 and in similar situation going to be starting treatment soon. Thanks for your post, we’re all in the same boat. All of the symptoms you described I have, and so I’m excited to finally be on the road out of pain. So I totally empathize.
Hey,
I hope all is well and you are getting results from your treatment. I live in Barcelona and would like to know who which dentist you are seeing? Get in contact timbulmer@btinternet.com
0034 633 382 787
Tim
Hey there, it really surprise me how many people are in Barcleona. Yes I write you an email and add take your phone number. My mail is supergerardito@gmail.com. Hope to hear from you!
Does anyone know of a doctor in the Connecticut or Manhattan area that they could recommend for this type of treatment?
I got 4 teeth extracted when I was 14y for orthodontic purpose. And I have got tmj and nose breathing problem for over 7 years now. This makes me feel unless and lonely since there is no one understand what I am facing, and in 2012 my girlfriend got married because she couldn’t stand being with a emotional and useless man like me.
Recently I found a doctor from Singapore ( I live in Cambodia ), he is so kind and helpful. He told me he can expand both my maxilla and mandible and put back 4 implants. I am so excited about that, and hope to wake up from this bad dream. Now I am saving for the traveling expenses and first time consultation and examination because it is too expensive for me since i can’t earn much with my current situation. Hopefully I can get there soon.
Wish you guys get well soon. I will share more about my progress with you guys. Keep in touch. 🙂
Rith
Hi Rith, May I know who this doctor is?
I am from Singapore as well and would like to go to him.
Thank you!
Hi Marsh, I’m from Singapore too! May I know if you have found a doctor from Singapore who does this yet? I would like to reverse my previous extractions as well. Thank you!
Hi Rith,
May I know who this doctor is as well? I’m from Singapore and would like to go to him too. Thank you!
Hello All,
Has anybody heard of Dr. Gerald Smith and if so any comments would be appreciated.
I know he works with the ALF appliance and believes a lot of teeth and jaw problems are due to cranial distortions caused by bad dental work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuFDEVmmT5g
Sincerely,
Badgerlife 😉
Hi CP,
May I ask your thoughts on Dr. Gerald Smith? I only ask because I know you do loads of research on many orthodontist and thought you might know of Dr. Smith’s work.
I know Ian Hedley really believes Dr. Smith is very skilled and even flies out of London, England to get treatment by Dr. Smith.
Badgerlife 🙂
I had 4 extractions at 14 and my teeth pushed back into my skull, my chin is now merged with my neck and i’m forced to breath through my mouth. Orthodontists know exactly what they’re doing.
If you’ve had extraction orthodontics, all you need is to move your tongue to the correct position. Because in and of themselves, retraction orthdontics made my face look good. It was when I stopped wearing the retainer that things went downhill. That’s what the tongue’s for — it’s a natural retainer. Feel me? It’s just something I realized today as my cheekbones were popping back up today.
Yes the tongue posture is most important 🙂
Can someone who has been through reverse extraction using ALF help me find a dentist to do this? I am in Nebraska but could go to Chicago or Denver for treatment.
4131 Pioneer Woods Dr. Suite 101 · 402-488-1113
Nebraska
Thanks so much for sharing your story! I would really LOVE to read an update and possibly see progress pictures…I had extraction orthodontics and headgear and my maxilla and lower jaw are WAY too far back. It’s depressing. Dr. Hang says the only thing that will fix me is jaw surgery and Dr. Nordstorm (ALF creator) says surgery is dangerous. I don’t think I can get as much movement with just an appliance, but I am hoping to see pictures of people like me who got moderate to good improvement with just appliances 🙂 It would help me greatly to make my decision!
Hi my name is Melania, My recommendations for you is go with jaw surgery.
I am in the same situation as you are. I will have jaw surgery in the fallowing months. If you need names of good oral surgeons please let me know.
Good luck!
Hey melania, what led you to choosing surgery? Did the alf not help? You said earlier you were noticing positive profile changes so I’m just curious.
I posted before and after pictures in my membership post. Dr. Hang seems to include surgery in many of his cases, although it may have its place, I’d argue that it may not always be necessary. We’re currently exploring the path to improve ourselves naturally.
Hi Claiming Power and all, hoping this message finds you well. Wondering if you can give me some guidance? I have silently followed your blog and similar blogs re: adult palatal expansion for nearly 1 year now. I was in traditional braces for 3+ years- the brackets are still on, but I severed ties with my ortho as I need to seek a new path. I did NOT have an extractions apart from wisdom tooth removal. However, I felt my dental arches retracting in traditional braces and in Sept 2014, after what was supposed to be a simple adjustment, began experiencing these symptoms very severely and almost overnight: severe facial and tooth pain (due to teeth being too close together), onset sleep apnea, waking up gasping for breath with rapid heartbeat, tongue lost space to posture itself properly on roof of my mouth, loss of lip support, lower jaw tooth crowding, severe nasal congestion in left nostril. 3 years ago I began ortho treatment with a large diastema and my ortho was using the power chain to close gap. However, 2 years after the gap had closed, he still insisted on using the power chain at every appointment which is why I suspect I had this retraction. In Sept. 2014, it seems my teeth couldn’t take being so squished together and the left side of my upper dental arch ‘caved in’/retracted severely! Now it is difficult to achieve proper tongue posture, and my tongue is forced so hard against my first premolars that I get intense pain on the back of my teeth and in my nasal cavity even at rest! Because I have these brackets on (but ended my relationship with my ortho after 7 months of begging him to expand my arch again), I need to decide a new course of treatment. I am between two paths: 1) Damon braces, which I understand can expand arch as wide as possible OR 2) ALF appliance, then Damon (if they are needed). But, my question is: since I have not had extraction orthodontics, is the ALF necessary or do you think that Damon can achieve the proper arch restoration? 3) Also, what would happen to the diastema if I were to go into an ALF appliance? I am based in Northern CA (San Francisco). Given my symptoms and your research, would there be a doc or another route you might suggest? I consulted with one orthotropic dentist here and he will not used Biobloc on me because I am 29 years old. One ALF doc said I needed to first stabilize my bite through braces before he could help me! In the meantime I am trying to practice myofunctional therapy on my own to maintain what is left of my dental arch. I know you must be busy but any insight you might be able to offer would be most appreciated! Wish you all the best and thank you CP for your blog. Jillian
Claiming Power and all, hello! I thought I would give an update on my progress in case my experience can help anyone else. As I’d mentioned before, I was in braces for 3.5 years and although I was a non-extraction case, my previous orthodontist went to drastic measures to close a large gap in my front teeth by retracting my maxilla too far back (which caused my mandible to retract as well). He used the power chain long after my gap was closed which led to the teeth being very crooked one on top of the other even after 3.5 years in braces! I noticed the retraction, but began realizing the severity of the problem when I began developing severe facial/tooth pain, inability to concentrate, mouthbreathing, tongue hanging outside of my mouth, sleep apnea. Anyway after almost one year trying to sort out the cause of these issues and forcing my previous ortho to ‘re-expand’ my dental arches, I reached a point where I was almost comfortable posturing my tongue again at the roof of my mouth but still feeling very narrow. To gain space, I adamantly did myofunctional exercises and forced my tongue into the too-small palate space. I was still in braces, but over time noticed that I was gaining space!! I terminated treatment with my previous ortho in 2015 of this year as we differed in our perspectives (obviously) and I was looking for some alternative therapy that could help me. I was stuck between going into an ALF, or going into Damon braces. Finally after I became so sick of being obsessed with teeth, my inability to breathe optimally, and my inability to understand the best course of action (ALF or Damon), I went to a new orthodontist I trusted (who, even if she thought I was crazy, was nice enough not to let on) and told them to just take the braces off while I think about what my next move will be. I told them I didn’t want a retainer because I was still feeling too narrow, and I wanted to see how things expanded if I just try to regain the space with my tongue… At first I was worried that everything would cave in, but after about 3 days adamantly combatting the narrowness with my tongue– I realized I am able to posture my tongue flat in my mouth!!!!! The first two nights were the most difficult- I was still too narrow, I could tell the teeth were weak and settling, and as a result was waking up with the choking! Day 3 and on, however, as I remained adamant with maintaining the tongue posture at all times, the teeth are settling in a broader arch and my boyfriend reports I am no longer choking. I have achieved most of the lateral expansion I need to be comfortable for now, using my tongue as a retainer as I am really (really) terrified to go back into braces (although my new ortho says I definitely need to go back in them, because there is an alignment issue). Still, to me breathing is more important than anything. Take it from me- braces using severely retractive methods CAN kill you no matter what anyone says! Don’t ever let anyone, not even a doctor with years of medical experience, tell you that they understand you better than you understand your own body and its symptoms! I thank God that I am past the worst of it now, and there is more hope and help out there it seems. Best of luck to you all on your journey to find health and comfort in your bodies!
thanks for sharing
hi guys i m sikander from india .my 4 premolars are also extracted and suffering from many problems like u and i also have done research and we dont have doctors like dr hang and dr mews .what should i do?
and i m trying my best to come to dr hang but i dont know anyone in the country and where to stay .there r lots of people like me in india if doctor can visit here he got lots of patients and it is best for us. kindly help us
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