Starecta vs Orthotropics, What really causes poor body posture? (forward head posture & scoliosis)

The question arose about the origin of scoliosis and posture problems. Is it really the position of the lower jaw as described by Starecta’s creator Moreno? or is the primary cause Cranial Facial Dystrophy as explained by Mike Mew as the primary cause of forward head posture & crooked teeth.

I’ve been quite busy of late, getting into business for myself & escaping the corporate ladder. So I have not had much time at all to answer any of the questions that’s lighting up the comment section. I thought that I would begin picking out some and answering it here so that I can iterate it better for all to see.

Just a quick update on my situation, the braces have come off, I have successfully reopened 6.8 to 7 mm of space for all 4 bicuspids, and I’m 26 years old. I got ceraroot ceramic implants, and they healed up nicely.

The whole implant process was piece of cake. I was bit nervous about it but the surgery was nothin because I was knocked out the whole time with that good ol’ laughing gas, and then I woke up, went home and didn’t take any pain killer & definitely no antibiotics because I don’t believe in it. Instead I took massive quantities of Ascorbic Acid, I was taking 20 to 60 grams daily which kept my immune system strong and no chance of infection ever taking place. (you can find bulk on Amazon) What was interesting was for 3-5 days I would sometimes feel a dull achy feeling in my jaw, and then I’d take some Ascorbic Acid and almost instantly it would take away that slight pain. I don’t know, I believe that stuff works.

And in November I can get the dental crown and finally get that smile back, its been a long road… over 3 years.

The journey of improving oral posture and head posture continues. Based on everything I’ve experienced and seen in the last 3 years, from face pulling, NCR, Atlas & everything in between, what explains my situation and the original causes better than anything else has been the Orthotropic Premise. I am not endorsed by Mike Mew, I just report what I feel closely explains my situation and the true causality of why we need orthodontics in the first place, while some others did not. I’m just a curious explorer of these subjects.

I was able to expand the palate by 7 mm at age 24, and re-open 7 mm of space for bicuspids, something that 8 other conventional & functional orthodontics told me straight to my face that it was impossible.

So really I have a natural skepticism to absolute claims by anyone who’s only looking at the situation from 1 angle.

As far as I’m concerned, no doctor in the world can really answer what’s possible & what’s not, at least not yet when it comes to how much change is possible in adults.

So the exploration continues…

Question 1: Does the lower jaw cause asymmetry? Starecta vs Orthotropic Premise

Here’s a question by one of the readers, left in the comments.

“Have you looked into the starecta method? http://www.starecta.com

Mike Mew says teeth+lips+tongue, but having the jaws come together when the maxilla is recessed/asymmetric is counterproductive since the body uses the position of the lower jaw to align the spine, thus a misaligned lower jaw position will actually result in muscle asymmetries/sceolosis, this in turn has fatal long term health consequenses as the bones will remodel into an asymmetric position over time.

ideally i think the jaw should be lowered into a position were it becomes perpendicular to the upper skull while proper posture of the tongue is maintained simulatnously. this way the neck can be straightened properly and the spine kept in a healthy balance. Then, when the maxilla has finally been remodeled into perfectly straight occlusion the jaws can be brought together again”

CP’s Answer

In my experience, It’s not the position of the lower jaw that determines the spine’s posture like scoliosis. The under lying problem here is the lengthened face, or less than ideal facial shape which resulted from open mouth posture & weak muscle tone that is at the root of these spinal problems. When the face lengthens and both jaws drop down, this can be clearly seen by the antigonial notch, which people with well developed faces with horizontal jaws do not have.

This causes a face that is sunken down, so we have to tilt our head up to present a normal profile to the world, this is done unconsciously of course. We then have to simultaneously position the whole head forwards to get more of that jaw out of the airway. This is the cause of forward head posture and the start of neck & spinal problems. As the head is postured forwards, it compromises the structural integrity of the whole spine, now the head weighs much heavier than its supposed to. The muscle of your body have to tense up and hold the heavy head up as compensation mechanism. This tensing of the muscle may be the cause of certain asymmetry problems like one shoulder higher than other, one leg shorter than other, etc. & the beginning of twisting of the spine (scoliosis), as it was not designed to hold up the head in such a way.

Above picture illustrates horizontal vs vertical grown face, and how a horizontal face allows for upright head posture while below picture indicate how vertical face can lead to the forward head posture.

This is all related to the maxilla and mandible. The airway and presenting a normal profile to others.

When the jaws melt away, we tilt the head up and back so we can breath easier and so our face is not looking down all the time. We are social creatures, we care about how we appear to others, so we will alter head position / posture to compensate.

This often times masks just how vertical some of our faces have dropped, and how far back into the airway our jaws would be if we didn’t compensate by tilting the head.

If above lady were to position her head correctly by lifting the head by the back of the head, you would see her cheek line almost go backwards and her lower jaws will become non existent.

The horizontal shaped face can be postured straight above the shoulders without tilting the head, because the jaws are up and forward & out of the airway.

So to completely ignore the effect of facial shapes, and the position of the Maxilla & Mandible, along with the explanation of causality of why they sometimes grow horizontal in some individuals? and why are more and more people in the modern world getting vertical growth of the jaws compared to our ancestors? are very important questions which Starecta does not address.

And the cause of Facial Asymmetry?

I do not claim to know the full truth of this just yet but here are some of the theories that I feel might be hold some answers.

First one being the crushed box theory

When the maxilla does not grow properly forwards, it affects all the other facial bones.

Also the maxilla may drop unevenly as it dystrophies, possibly due to having stronger muscle tone on one side of the face from predominantly chewing on that side.

I noticed at least for myself, the more developed side of my face was the side I chewed on growing up, I’m beginning to chew evenly now and it seems to have an effect. Although I can’t clearly say this is the true cause, just speculation at this point.

Also some people can posture the tongue on one side of the mouth which may have asymmetric effects on the form.

Keep in mind as the maxilla drops, we adopt different oral postures which causes the different forms of malocclusion of teeth & jaws.

The Cause of Under Bite, Over Bite, Deep Bite & all different classes of Malocclusion (1,2,3) is determined by individual response to cranial dystrophy

All in the effort to compensate for reduced tongue space and regain air way space.

Some people may begin jutting their jaw forward to get that space, which will cause Class III (under bite) over time.

Some people may simply leave the jaw open and posture the head far forwards, which will cause Class II (over bite) in due time.

Some people will posture the jaw slightly sideways which will cause the cross bites.

Posturing the tongue between the teeth will cause deep bites, etc.

So again when we talk about what Starecta is trying to treat which is misaligned jaws or jaw position, I would ask well how did the jaws become misaligned in the first place.

According to orthotropics and oral myology, its improper oral posture that did it over many years.  Although the nature of dystrophy might differ, it is all the same case of the maxilla and mandible dropping down.

And this can be seen by proper measurement by a doctor that knows what he is doing. If cranial dystrophy is the case, then placing a bite splint like a rectifier that places the lower jaw further down & back, seems counter productive.

Resolving Chronic Neck Pain by Correcting Head Posture

I used to suffer from chronic neck pains, but It has been resolved due to learning better head posture, which is up right over the shoulders, and imagining you are lifting the head by the occipital (back of the head) as if it was attached to a string. Which below picture illustrates.

When you properly position your head in this way, you will notice that the posterior tongue posture can really begin to push up into the soft palate, and in time it does feel like the tongue is supporting the head as Mike Mew mentions.

This head posture naturally raises the atlas up which relieves the tension in the neck and spine, this is essentially what Starecta intends to accomplish but in a different way.

For me their “lever” effect from increased dental height is accomplished by proper head posture instead, which is difficult for most people because of cranial dystrophy.

With Starecta what I feel is happening is as people put the rectifier in, because it causes the lower jaw to now drop further down and back, the person has to then lift his whole head up over the shoulders and tilt his head back little bit to show a normal profile to the world. The dental height is not causing the head to go upright, its the individual shifting their head posture to level the profile that’s causing the head to go up right and spine to straighten. But with this approach I believe there is a price to pay, first of all the head is now tilted back slightly just to present a normal face so the forehead will be more sloped. The face will lengthen over time, and the frontal cheekbones will get flatter.

The thing is how can additional dental height lift the whole head? when the lower jaw can simply go down and back?

Can we agree that after the rectifier is in, the lower jaw is further down and back relative to the maxilla than it was before?

If that is the case, it is changing the facial profile of the individuals which will alter head posture because we are social creatures, so its more important for us to present a normal profile to the world than worry about how we are posturing the head.

You can try it out yourself, posture your head forward and assume the forward head posture with slumped shoulders. Then drop your lower jaw and hold that open mouth position and pretend that’s the rectifier in the mouth. You will notice that you now feel that the face is almost looking down, so while keeping that same open jaw position, what would you have to do to present a normal face to everyone? that’s right, you have to now lift your head up and tilt it back to bring the jaw forward again.

So I personally believe in other reasons as to why leaving in such high bite splints can alter head & body posture.

It’s not the rectifier doing it, its you doing it.

Also what is the cause of “lack of dental height” that is blamed by Starecta?

At least the case that is described on the website, to me, simply looks like a posterior deep bite case, where the back teeth is too intruded.

This condition is not caused by grinding of the back teeth or anything like that, but improper tongue posture. By patients that place their tongue between their back teeth from little, preventing those teeth from erupting fully and overtime the force of the tongue and biting on it, slowly intruded those teeth. There are many cases of this that prove this causality in the orthotropic and oral myology field.

Slight Changes in Facial Height can have dramatic effect on Facial Appearance

Even using fixed braces after orthotropic case can spoil the final result in children. As below picture shows

The middle picture was after she was done with biobloc stage 3, noticeable facial improvement from first picture.

Unfotunately her orthodontist finished her with fixed braces, to realign her mid-line which resulted in loss of facial beauty at age 14 (last picture). You can see that the face lengthened.

Stage 3 Biobloc is there to prevent the child from leaving her mouth open by acrylic fangs that dig into the lower jaw.

After age 12, she stopped wearing the stage 3, and she still hasn’t fully trained to keep her mouth shut and build her muscle tone yet, then came the fixed braces which can cause children to chew even less because of teeth sensitivity & difficulty on chewing hard foods. Which further weakens the jaw muscles that doesn’t help the situation.

Keep in mind, I finished my case with fixed self-ligating bracket braces with coil springs to re-open the bicuspid spaces, but I was conscious to keep strengtheing my jaw muscles and keeping the mouth shut so I only saw improvements in facial appearance over time. PS: you don’t ever want to use traditional brackets because that uses tightening forces to align teeth.

So as you can see the whole facial appearance is very sensitive to our oral posture & muscle tone. Your efforts at correcting those areas, do more during the treatment than you realize.

This is why John Mew after all the experience he has had treating children, requires his patients to wear the stage 3 for at least 2-3 years after the treatment is over during the night. This is to ensure that the child fully learns the closed mouth posture, and because the child is forced to keep the jaws closed, that effort also builds the muscle tone over time.

Biobloc stage 3 are mere training wheels, albeit very effectual ones.

John Mew has cases where the child has retained the great facial results 20-30 years after treatment, into adult hood, because they successfully learned the closed mouth posture.

He has also seen many cases where the final result was spoiled when the child failed to continue with their stage 3 biobloc wear.

So you see, its all about posture at the end of the day.

Oral Posture During Sleep?

& I also have a lot of you asking me how do you ensure proper posture during the night while you sleep? Well this is the challenge for all us. Wearing biobloc stage 3 one will know if the jaw is coming open because it will cause soreness in the morning, this is why that appliance is so brilliant to wear at night as it can be protection from reverting back to hanging the mouth open during sleep.

What I can say from speaking with Mike, is building enough muscle tone is one way to ensure the mouth remain closed.

Also your predominant posture during waking hours most likely translate to the posture during sleep as well, so the focus is always continue to ensure you got great posture when awake.

Also in the beginning, its much easier to keep the jaw closed when sleeping on the sides instead of on the back.

Another thing I thought about lately is, I wonder if having a horizontal jaw would be easier to keep shut during sleep versus vertical jaw. Because the gravity forces would be different, like a erect building versus slanted one. if that makes any sense…

But I believe I have been successful at keeping the jaw closed during sleep from chewing on that tough crystal gum, the way I notice really is when I notice my jaw when I’m gradually regaining consciousness from sleep. Taking a video is like the only other way or have someone check up on you during deep sleep, which I have not done.

Mouth Closed Posture Results in Facial Improvement

I have seen many cases where the magic occurs once the child learns to keep their mouth closed, with teeth touching. Not Open. Ideally we want to change our facial shape towards a more horizontal shape. That is the holy grail of any facial change anyone could be after.

And in children, the Mews have at least figured it out, and laid out the path. That is building muscle tone, closing the mouth shut and raising the tongue on the roof.

Both John & Mike Mew feel that any sort of bite plane or anything place in between teeth can encourage vertical growth over time. One of the reason being is that it will stretch the masseter muscle to get used to that length over time, and if the muscle is lengthened surely the bones will follow as we have seen in stroke cases.

Conclusion: We want to cause upswing of BOTH the maxilla & mandible

What we are after at claimingpower.com is to shorten the muscle length over time so the muscle crushes the face into a shorter more horizontal face. This is journey we focus on, and if you wonder if bone can become shorter, well I believe it remodel in such way that the horizontal dimension can become shorter over time. This was already proven in a monkey experiment.

When surgical procedure that made the monkey’s masseter muscle stronger, it drove the whole face up and forwards, as seen in the dotted line, effectively reducing the vertical dimensions. With the dotted line you can clearly see that the jaws have done a up swing, which is essentially what happened to the girls above that saw facial improvement from orthotropic biobloc stage 3 wear.

So this is the type of result that is desirable to replicate in adult humans… in a nut shell…

But the comparison to us humans is not truly apple to apple because in that experiment that monkey started off as a normal individual, meaning it already had good tongue posture. It could be much more different story when your starting point is a vertical structure with much less tongue space and poor tongue posture.

So we can’t assume that things can change just like the monkey just by increasing muscle strength, it seems that the balance of muscle tone & tongue is important for the face.

-CP