Update and to answer question about self-treat NCR

First of all, I’ve been getting some emails about people asking me to teach them self-NCR. I am not qualified at the moment to teach anyone this. I do not want to be held reliable if what I teach was to cause damage. I am still learning about this myself, although I believe some positive changes has been made, it isn’t crazy dramatic change that the NCR people like to claim it is. And the changes I’ve seen isn’t enough to confirm to me what I am doing is 100% reliable, nor do I know if self NCR can replace normal NCR from a NCR doctor.

I have never received NCR series from a real doctor before. Maybe in the future I may feel more comfortable with Self-NCR but I am still experimenting with it.  I really do not feel comfortable teaching anyone, as sometime I question if this treatment works at all.

Ok as for my palate expansion process.

For the upper palate, I started with an appliance with a hinge, (you can see a picture if in my past post), the hinge was there because my front arch was a lot narrower than the back of my arch by the molars. So the hinge was to allow the front arch to “catch up” to the back. I did this for about 3 months or so?

The doctor thought he had gotten enough expansion… by this point I had pretty good amount of gaps between some of the teeth(note I am reversing previous extraction orthodontic work, so we are trying to recreate the gaps for my 4 bicuspids that was extracted, so GAPS in this case is good). Anyway I wanted to go further with my expansion.

There was only so much expansion you can do with the top arch, as it was limited by the size of the bottom arch. So I had my doctor make me an appliance for the bottom arch, even though I had been using light-wire braces (similar to DAMON) to expand the bottom, we made an appliance for the bottom anyway to get more considerable expansion there. and we modified the upper appliance, now we removed the hinge and moved the screw in the middle of the appliance so we were now expanding the whole arch form.

Around 2 months ago I got this new thing called the Acceledent (http://acceledent.com/orthodontists), what it does is it uses electricity to send pulses of certain frequency that helps to stimulate bone growth. you wear it 15 min a day.

I had my doctor order the acceledent for me and this was new to both of us. The first month we used it, he noticed I made 2 months worth of progress.

I eventually out grew my first appliance for the bottom palate. At this point, the doc said he usually stops expanding the bottom palate, however since we now had this acceledent, he was more opted to try to expand the bottom more. Now I got a new bottom appliance yesterday to continue to expand the bottom palate. I also out grew the top appliance. the doctor is making me a new one so that we can expand the upper little bit more as well.

Also it is worthy to mention, that the upper arch had been expanded quite rapidly. I wear the appliance 24/7 (unlike some other appliances out there) and I expanded everyday 1/8 turn. So I have been expanding a lot faster than most methods. The idea here is that the upper palate has the suture and that suture can be expanded quite rapidly, although if I was to take the appliance off for even couple hours, that suture will begin to close back up again so this is why I wear the appliance 24/7. eventually new bone growth will be formed, and I can take the appliance off when I am 100% done with treatment. However for the bottom palate I have to expand very slowly because there is no suture for the mandible and if I expand too quickly all I will be doing is tipping the teeth out.

At the same time we have been moving the front teeth outwards, (they had been pushed back from prior orthodontics) This is counter intuitive from traditional orthodontic mentality. Tipping the front teeth out would cause an overbite or buckteeth?? Well I now realize, the front teeth needs to be angled outwards, as my front teeth is advancing forward, I am regaining more and more lip support and when I talk, I am looking better and better. Now my lip isn’t all scrounged up and my teeth is exposed just right when I speak. At the moment I have an overbite, as my front teeth extends past my bottom palate, however what we will do after I am done with expansion is put in an appliance with a hinge (the same one used by Dr. Mew in his orthotropics treatment) the hinge will force me to move my lower jaw forward and keep my mouth closed. What this will do over time, is create new bone growth in my jaw join, (where my lower jaw attached to the skull, near the ears) The socket has cartilage, but as I keep my jaw forward and create some space there, there will be new bone growth . and my jaw will come forward and down to meet the supposed “buck teeth”. And once my lower jaw comes forward to meet the front teeth, what looked like “buck teeth” won’t be there anymore because now my bottom teeth is meeting it.

Here is the paradigm shift when it comes to traditional orthodontics and this new way of orthotropics as pioneered by Dr. Mew. When I child has buckteeth, it is not because the front teeth sticks out too far. It is the lower jaw is too far back, causing the front teeth to appear to be “buck teeth”. Most cases the Front teeth / maxilla is too far back and down. and the front “buck” teeth needs to be push forward and up even more. And then the lower jaw needs to be brought forward to meet the front teeth.

This will begin to get rid of the receding chin look. Using train tracks to push everything back even more is just plain shitty.

Anyway right now, I am focused on expansion of the bottom palate as much as possible so I can expand the top palate as much as possible.

My arch is getting wide. It is now as wide as the common average. but I am trying to go beyond that average.

What I am definitely noticing after I started expanding the whole arch is that, my face is getting more symmetrical and balanced on both side. My chronic sinus problems in left nostril has considerably gotten better. All moving towards great direction as I expand my palate.

few month ago I also started with the crane treatment which is a reverse pull head gear. how do I feel about this as compared to 30 min a day hockey helmet treatment? I believe I am seeing better results with the crane although it is still too early to tell. I am only wearing it while I sleep currently which is only 8 hours a day. They tell you to wear 14 hours but I find that kind of hard with work and everything.

These changes are very gradual though and one most endure with great patience. It is a big lesson in taking care of oneself.

19 thoughts on “Update and to answer question about self-treat NCR”

  1. Thank you for a great update! This is great news, seems like your treatment is going in the right direction. It was interesting to hear about the Acceledent – maybe this is the answer to the problem of expanding the lower jaw?
    I’m sure I’m not the only one dying to see pictures of you and your teeth. 😉 Of course, post those if/when you’re ready.
    Keep up the good blog and dental work! 😉

    1. Hi Andreas, I also live in Sweden and am trying to get some kind of treatment. It would be great if I could get in touch with you and ask you a few questions about your treatment!

      Kind regards Hannah

  2. Do you feel that your atlas treatment has been beneficial? I cant remember if you have done more or not. I hope they cleared any confusion you had about ncr. Did you feel like you had one side that was changing faster than the other? What did the atlas treatment do to counter those effects?

    1. I have been receiving Atlas treatment since I started some 5-6 months ago.
      Now I’m getting treated once every two weeks but it used to be twice a week, then once a week for a long while.

      It is hard to say how much of an impact it has had on my other treatments, one symptom relief I can notice is my stiff neck is less and less as I continue to receive Atlas adjustments.
      Of course I am gaining more symmetry but is it because of Atlas? or just because I am doing all these treatments? it is hard to say. but the fact is my spine because off balance the longer I go without Atlas treatment, and ncr, expansion orthodontics, nor face pulling seem to be affecting that area (the Atlas).

      So I am biting the cost and continue to receive Atlas treatments hoping that they are all benefiting each other.

      1. My conclusion from doing some online research is that the functional appliences sorts out imbalances in the skull, much like NCR does. I do belive that functional orthodontics either work more extensively than NCR or that they work on different areas of the skull.

        What’s your take? Would orthodontic work (with a functional applience) be enough in comparission to NCR or is there still a need for NCR, even after face-pulling or the usage of a crane?

        About the Atlas correction. And this is purely my own observations from recieving treatment myself. It’s like a “lower tier” of structural treatment. My keep poping out every few months and it’s pure hell when it does. Getting it back into place makes some symptoms go away but all in all, they return sooner or later, because of the structural imbalances in the “higher tiers”. I would imagine that having the Atlas out of alignment might hinder and prolong appliance treatment. I don’t think that it, by itself, is enough to change posture. Are you correcting it often? If so, does it subluxate often or is the treatment mote or less preventative?

  3. I have a question regarding the palate expansion.

    I myself am forced to self treat due to the fact that there isn’t a single practitioner in my country. I therefore don’t have anyone to consult, since I got My device from a lab. I have a device for each jaw but have noticed that my bite’s getting misaligned due to the expansion of the upper jaw.

    How did you solve this issue? Are you waiting for the end of the expansion face to realign the teeth with braces? I’m a bit lost at the moment and am trying to gather information from people who have firsthand experience, before I continue. Btw, i have not had any precious orthodontic treatment done.

    Thank you in advance!


  4. How do you tackle the misalignment that occurs in the upper jaw due to the expansion? Due to the crappy Swedish medical system, I’m forced to self experiment. I found a lab that supplied me with upper and lower expansion plates. However, I’m beggining to notice some misalignement and am trying to work out a way to solve the problem. Will you be using braces (Damon system or something similar)?

    Thank you in advance


    1. I have gaps now in my upper arch.

      What we are doing is expanding the bottom and the upper arch with a removable appliance that I wear 24 hours of the day.

      Once we decide we have expanded as much as we can, then I will be using light wire, litigating braces (similar to DAMON) to straighten the teeth and using spring coils to open up gaps for where the bicuspids (4 of them that were extracted) were.

      But expanding the palate is where the action is that. As I am seeing positive changes to the face and my breathing has made drastic improvements, as well as my profile is changing.

      I want to continue to expand as much as possible, it is just that, it’s slower to expand the bottom since there is no suture in the mandible. I am going slower now so I can reap the most amount of expansion possible with the bottom.

      Yes my upper arch is bigger than the bottom arch currently. However the doctor also has another technique to wear an appliance with flanges that will force me to push my lower jaw forward to meet my upper teeth which has been pushed forward quite a bit. (So i have an overbite now)

      (I’m not doing this yet…however this maybe the path we go) As this appliance with the flange (Biobloc http://www.orthotropics-na.org/) forces me to keep my teeth together at the front which is forcing me to move my lower jaw forward. The joint that connects the lower jaw the skull gets little bit of space and then new bone growth forms. So the jaw joint comes forward and down a bit and new bone growth is formed eventually.

      This will help little bit more to make the jaw look less protruded and weak looking.

      however, currently I am focused on expansion.

      To align teeth, it will require some braces or possible invisiline?

      If I were you I would focus on expanding the lower arch with your appliance you have now but going very slowly so that you are not tipping teeth but actually making the mandible bone itself morph and get bigger and wider.

      The upper is alot more simple to expand. Just go the same rate you are with the bottom. or allow the bottom to catch up to upper… however the most challenging part about this like I said, is to get enough expansion with the bottom arch.

  5. CP:

    Thank you for your response! Seems like there’s a bit more to jaw expansion than one might think at first. 🙂

    I was thinking that the best way to go about this is by expanding the lower jaw and leaving the upper be, for a while. Didn’t know that the lower jaw was possible to expand since most of what I’ve read insicates that it’s “impossible”. I’ll use the upper as a retainer and keep on expanding the lower, albeit

  6. Hi Everyone,
    Im planning to pull my maxilla forward. I had a wisdom tooth extracted a year ago and both my maxilla and mandible pushed backwards. Aside from the The crane, are there any instruments to have it done? Thank you.

  7. Hi, I just left a long comment on an older one of your posts, but saw you had more recent posts about your progress. So interesting! I currently have DAMON braces, had my top palate expanded, but then (mistakenly, I now believe) had 4 bicuspids removed. My face has narrowed considerably, I have deep creases where my “normal looking” smile lines used to be, and as of last week I’ve now developed very uncomfortable TMJ pain. I’m still mid-process but my ortho has mentioned nothing about pulling my lower jaw forward to meet my upper jaw…it is currently at a downward slant and I have a receded chin, so I’m wondering why I had to do an internet search to find that I may need this done?? Why hasn’t my ortho addressed this? I told him I’m unhappy with how my face looks. He seems to think everything looks great and that if he continues to close the gaps where the teeth were pulled by pulling my front teeth back and pulling my back molars forward to meet in the middle and then after that experimenting with changing the shape of my arch that all will be well. I have a sneaking suspicion that this won’t “fix” things and if not I want to know now before it’s too late! I’ll ask him at my next appointment about pulling the lower jaw forward. If he doesn’t seem to know what I’m talking about then would you recommend I ditch this guy and find someone else? I live in San Diego and you mentioned a Dr. Hang in CA? If he knows what he’s doing I’d be interested to talk to him. Also wondering, since you’re in the same position I’m in with having had 4 bicuspids extracted, what are they planning on doing to make up for those lost teeth in your current process? Is is really possible to reverse the damage from this by expanding the palate? It almost seems like they’d need to put fake teeth in or something. I’m interested to know how this works. If you could let me know I’d greatly appreciate it. Thanks!!

    1. Hello,

      Yes you are experiencing some of things I had gone through and plenty of many others have gone through from extraction orthodontist.

      What is astounding is that most orthodontists really have no idea what they are talking about. The select few out there truly understand what is going on with extraction orthodontist.

      My personal opinion is that 4 bicuspids should never ever be extracted for any reason. 4 bicuspids is ALOT of space, and by closing the gaps you are narrowing the palate, dental arch, bones considerably. This is why you are seeing that the face appears more narrow now.

      Nature intended us to have all 32 teeth. So why do orthodontist think it is okay to tinker with that?

      The problem is the bone structure not the crowded teeth, the palate did not grow big enough to accommodate all the teeth so we get crowding of the teeth. Narrowing the palate even more after extraction is going in the total opposite direction. We need to expand the palate.

      You said they tried to expand with DAMON…, what looks to me is that they gave up expansion because of their lack of knowledge and skill so they decided to extract 4 teeth to finish off the treatment. and they are narrowing your palate again.

      You live in San Diego?

      You’re lucky because I have considered moving to Cali even to see Dr. Hang. I was fortunate enough to find a Doctor where I live, in Michigan that does the same work as Dr. Hang.

      I strongly urge you to go see Dr. Hang and seek a consultation with him.

      You are seeing symptoms of TMJ, narrowing of the face, etc. These are all signs of improper orthodontic work of narrowing the palate. Dr. Hang (although I personally have never seen him) is a specialist in these sort of cases.

      You mentioned you had receding chin profile. Dr. Hang understand what causes this as well. It has to do with the upper palate not being wide enough. So the lower jaw is not able to come forward because the upper palate’s narrowness prevents it from doing so.

      Dr. Hand does implants for the missing 4 bicuspids.

      I had 4 bicuspids extraction as well. I lost lip support and my face narrowed. Also I didn’t like my narrow smile. and My lower jaw seemed to have receded.

      All of these things are getting reversed as I re-expand my palate again.

      Know that you are not hopeless in this situation. Take control and don’t take a doctor’s word for anything. Do your own research on this.

      Watch some of Dr. Hang’s Youtube videos.

      Also visit this blog and site: http://orgoneproducts.org/blog/ and http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/

  8. Omg omg… how can I get this kind of work done in Asia! ? I don’t know and can’t find anyone doing this kind of work!

    It seems overwhelming to try and self treat when there’s a lot of ‘mechanics’ involved. Obviously you need the expertise and guidance of a knowledgeable dentist/orthodontic trained professional to guide and advise.

    The problem for me is that I didn’t just have 4 biscupids removed. I had 3 and 1 canine, which was an ‘eye’ tooth. My butcher dentist decided that symmetry was worth nothing, so he bought one canine down and removed the biscupid. Removing the other canine and biscupids. Am sure that’s why my face has no symmetry. As if that wasn’t enough I then moved county and my new dentist tried her hand at rectifying his mess with more extractions and train tracks. Double whammy. My mouth is now really narrow and, having also had my wisdom teeth pulled, worryingly short of teeth!

    I wish I had access to the expertise to get rectifying procedures so that I can open my airways and maybe look better. I wonder what my life/health would have been like if I’d had proper correction. Sigh.

    1. begin working on oral posture and jaw strength, those are more important than anything else, I can relate to your thoughts, but all you can do is take 1 step at a time forwards, I am seeing subtle improvement all the time by practicing oral posture and proper swallowing and jaw muscles, the path is not easy but you can improve. good luck
      & if you can find a doctor that can expand your palate a bit, that would be helpful as well. Look for ALF doctor or Myobrace or Orthotropics

      That will be more important for you than NCR

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