I have officially begun the adult maxilla protraction treatment a week ago.
It is an experimental treatment requiring a small surgical procedure that took 2 weeks to heal up before I could begin.
I’ve taken good before pictures and I also have CT scans of my skull. Surreal looking at your whole skull in 3D imaging…I want to see actual bone changes, pictures can be very deceiving.
What I’ve done for the past 3 years is adult palate expansion and reversing extraction orthodontics, and what is now being called “Mewing” which is short for adopting the tropic premise of “teeth together, lips together & tongue on the roof of your mouth”
When I see pictures of myself from 3 years back I have definitely changed my facial shape for the better as Mike Mew has confirmed because we talk on skype video chat from time to time.
Yet last time we spoke like 2 months ago, he noted I am still leaving my lips slightly apart few mm between syllables or when I’m thinking.
Just goes to show it is not easy changing posture, it is almost as if you need to put in consistent effort for a long time till the muscles change (shape & size).
Mew has made me a stage 3 biobloc of new design which I am going to go pick up on Wednesday. (please do not hit him up for this if you are not under care with orthotropic doctor)
Why biobloc stage 3? Why it is superior to sleep apnea mouth pieces?
According to Mike, wearing the biobloc stage 3 is infinitely better to use as a retainer than those clear ones which was what I was using. I really didn’t like how those clear retainers kept your jaw slightly open because that acrylic can be bit thick especially when you wear the top and bottom.
What biobloc stage 3 does is to force the wearer to keep their lower jaw shut because of the flanges that extend down into the lower jaw. Mike says wearing it will cause my whole jaws to drive upwards overtime from the effect of my masseter muscle holding that jaw shut long term.
Only time will tell if stage 3 biobloc will cause further changes even though I have been chewing gum and strengthening my jaws on my own. I have noticed that even with stronger jaw muslces, at times my jaws are held apart even though the lips are sealed. So at night while sleeping, I doubt they are staying completely closed 100{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of the time. 2 months ago I even woke up from a itchy throat and got sick from it for a few days, and I am willing to bet was caused by my mouth falling open at night.
What I have started doing after that night, was to tape my lips shut with paper tape and it seems to really help. I used to do this before but I stopped. I feel it’s a very underrated practice that should be incorporated by everyone if you don’t have stage 3. I also feel it seems to encourage one to keep that jaw closed, not just the tape forcing the lips shut. I thought my face looked better in the mornings after I started doing it.
Some people with sleep apnea wear mouth pieces that encourage you to jut the lower jaw forwards. But the difference is, every time you push on something there is always equal force pushing back. By pushing the lower jaw forwards, the muscles will pull the upper jaw back. My orthodontist’s dentist friend has been wearing this mouth piece for few years now because he has sleep apnea and can’t do the CPAP machine, but what has happened after few years wear is that his entire upper teeth & jaw has retracted back and now has an edge to edge bite, near class 3 occlusion.
And because lower jaw is connected to upper jaw, essentially it has pulled everything back, worsening the underlying condition.
Biobloc is different because it forces the wearer to use the masseter muscle to hold the jaw closed (NOT push it forward), it seems similar but the long term consequence is vastly different.
Here is a girl that used biobloc stage 3.
after 3 years wear of stage 3 biobloc, caused her entire midface and jaw to drive upwards.
This is Mike Mew’s Diagnosis and Case Report
Medical History
No relevant medical history
Dental History
Hypomineralisation of Upper 65+56, otherwise no relevant dental history.
Age, 12yeas 5 months female
Family History
2 elder sisters and one brother all treated with conventional orthodontics, with fixed appliances some with extractions and wearing permanent retention. Parents were dissatisfied with the results and wanted to find something different.
Family Support
Good family support, mother not working, three elder siblings grown up and left home. Mum and daughter committed to treatment. Sophie is very conscious of her appearance and is very motivated to do anything that may improve this.
Indications and measurements
Body posture, good, can slouch when relaxed
Head posture, forward much of the time, finds it slightly difficult to move head back to fully upright position.
Head shape, slightly brachyfacial,
Facial Planes, ears eyes, occlusal, mandbibular planes, all level
Indicator lines, i 38.5mm, ¯i 42.5mm (ideal at age 32mm and 30mm)
Maxillary position, moderate lack of support under the eyes with a flat area under the lower eye lid that is a little darker where venous pooling could occur demarcated by a slight line running down from close by the inner canthus of the eye, at about 45° running inferiorly and laterally. The alar of nose wide with good nasal openings, nose looks slightly large, especially at bridge, giving high angle of cheek line.
Mandible position, relatively horizontal (tipped slightly downward which in part may be due to head orientation), overall length to chin point good in relation to face in general, deep mentolabial fold with some activity in the mentalis to maintain lip seal.
Perioral and buccinators– lip shape, relative lip size, lips to aesthetic line.
Dental; Molar class I, canine class II ½ unit, incisal class II div 1. Centre lines coincident. Slight retroclination of lower incisors. Summary; mild class II div 1 with some upper anterior spacing. OJ- 8.2mm, OB- 4.0mm and inter-molar width- 36.3mm (wide for modern standards).
Postural; lip opening at 7mm rest, with lower lip dropped at rest and using mentalis to close.
Functional; inter-syllable rest position 7mm, mild enlargement of buccinators, some perioral activity on swallowing with lip catch. Tongue crossing lingual surfaces of the lower molars on talking. Masseter on palpation, good level 2.
Preliminary diagnosis
Considering Sophie’s age, sex and physical development, she is a little old for treatment.
Personal motivation very high and good family support that is well informed of alternative therapies.
Maxilla down and back, mandible good relative position to maxilla. i increased 6.5mm ¯i increase 12.5mm (upper reduced less due to large overjet and lower more due to retroclination of lower incisors), about 8mm average- which is rmoderate. Good muscle tone (noted from brachyfacial face shape, molar width and masseter on palpation). Mandibular position relatively well related to maxilla.
Mild dental malocclusion. Large overjet overstates the actual malocclusion.
Tongue between tooth swallow with lips apart 7mm much of the time using mentalis to maintain closure.
Additional method of investigation
Radiographs- deemed unnecessary,
Final Diagnosis
Moderate craniofacial dystrophy with large overjet but mild malocclusion. Lips 7mm apart at rest with good muscle tone and tongue between tooth function. A little old with good motivation and family support.
Not a perfect case but a good one to try.
Treatment plan
Standard orthotropics with no additional features, except possible elastics for anterior segment. 6 months preparation, expanding to 42mm or more. 18 months full time training then active retention until 16-18 yoa, with oral myology training.
Limitation of Treatment
Age- over the age of 9 it is unlikely that there will be much change in the area of the maxilla supporting the eye (unless two cycles of treatment occurs or excellent motivation). Also there is no possibility to extract the deciduous dentition, which has already been lost.
Risks in Orthotropics treatment
Failure to fully modify her posture and function.
Lower labial recession. Problems associated with stopping treatment midway (residual upper expansion, lip catch and scissor bite).
Damage to upper incisors during to their prominent position during the first stage of treatment.
Generally orthotropics is very fail safe and even if the treatment is not completely effective or finished early the effect is positive.
Preparation phase
6 months, 7mm or more upper expansion, open 6-8mm anterior open bite. Procline lower incisors and upper to less extent (as already proclinced).
Increase muscle tone with exercises.
Training phase
20hr a day wear of the training brace with spring components to move the teeth into position. Frequent active adjustments of the anterior and posterior locks and lower expansion using the hard locks to match the upper expansion in the lower arch.
Observing the reduction in overjet and overbite till normal incisor relationship is gained.
Approximately 18m wear, possibly more as she is a little old.
Active retention phase
Once normal incisal relationship is achieved (and held for 1-2months) decrease the wear from 20hrs to 1/3 of time (all time but school) for 2 month, then night plus 2hrs for 2 months, then night plus 1hr for 2months (the hours should be before they goto bed to gain some conscious time before the night which is unconscious time.
NB when ever additions to anterior locks are made the brace should not be worn that night, with the time made up with day wear, both that day and the day after especially before bed time.
Once you are sure that everything is settled go to night only wear.
Treatment progression and difficulties
Preparation phase
18,06,09 Fit stage 1 upper and lower, instructions given
20,08,09 Rezeroed 41.5mm 6+6 width
03,09,09 Imps for stage 3
OJ 4.6mm, OB -3.6mm, i 37mm (1.5mm less), ¯i 41mm (1.5mm less), 6+6 42.4mm.
This phase was far shorter than expected, with 6.1mm expansion in 47 days, which is 0.9mm per week (close to desired expansion). In reflection it may have been better to gain more expansion initially to maximise the treatment effect especially the eye support or cheek bone area.
Training phase
17,09,09 Fit stage 3
22,10,09 Start wearing a night (sooner than usual as patient older)
10,12,09 Ulcer on right Al, letter to dentist who is worried about lower incisal gingival level. In discussion frenectomy was made of the lower labial frenum which was contributing to the situation.
18,02,10 start using tape on lips at night
13,05,10 start using elastics from hooks across anterior teeth
16,06,11 Reduce wear to 2/3, Oral myology
Time 19 months, small residual OJ and OB, associated with mentalis action and tongue between tooth function with tongue moving to lower lip
L numbers over this period were L-0;1 L-1;4 L-2;11 L-3;2 L-more;2
Active retention phase
15,09,11 Reduced wear to 2/3 time with oral myology
15,12,11 Fit new stage 3,
Till present
Time 27 months so far, patients now 16 years 8 months, will review commitment at 17th birthday.
L numbers over this period were L-0;0 L-1;3 L-2;10 L-3;0 L-more;0, NB the last 2 have been L-1
Final result satisfaction
There is a small diastema between the upper incisors, which has been discussed with the patient and mother. Explained tha the final position of the teeth are dependant on the rest position of the lips and tongue, it would be possible for us to move the teeth into perfect alignment closing this gap but it would then need to be held permanently. She still continues to leave her lower lip open some 3-4mm at rest closing using the mentalis muscle, leaving the lower lip looking larger than the upper (although this is actually relative and if you notice the lips is actually just everted, being curled over with more vermilion border showing). Also notice that she is able to maintain a lip seal without mentalis effort- this is a major change that will have long-term implications.
Generally there is a very nice facial change, with a reduction in the anterior facial height, a very nice improvement of the maxillary eye support (which is not usually expected at this age). We were not using timers when we treated her and I suspect that her wear was far from perfect, however the treatment times were roughly kept to and the treatment went well. It would be nice to maintain her in active retention until she is 18 and finished school, at which point we will still want to follower her as we are a teaching centre.
You can see that the mentalis muscle is no longer active in the after picture. This is from age 12 to 16, 6 months of expansion to 42 mm or more, then 18 months of training phase (long time wear of stage 3 biobloc)
To the untrained eye, you may say she just grew up but there is change in bone shape taking place. While some kids during these years may get worse looking, she has improved. What’s important is she is really happy with the results and loves to continue to wear her stage 3 every night.
You can begin to see what Mike means when he says that the whole jaw will drive upwards.
Maxilla Protraction in Adults?
There’s a guy at facepulling.com that is coming up with his own way of attempting to protract the maxilla, will be interested to see how he does but it is not the same as what I’m doing. Anyway he posted a pretty interesting study that shows that displacing adult maxilla is most definitely possible.
Significant forward displacement was seen after 3 months of 24 hour wear, 500 G force.
Source: Protraction of maxilla in rhesus monkeys by controlled extraoral forces
The force was applied on more at the teeth level and it still worked with 24 hour wear.
24 hour wear is not feasible for humans but with better application of force it could compensate, which could be why it is working for Neymar. Time will tell for me, because I’ve tried the crane & pull forces on my oral appliance already and didn’t see enough changes taking place to continue.
Right now I am protracting and I feel the forces on my entire mid face and at times in the zygos and even behind the zygos, and from time to time some pull feeling from inside the skull which rather feels good.
The reason why we may need some kind of extra oral device to pull the maxilla forward might be that as adults we no longer have the momentum of growth on our side.
Same reason why orthotropics only works well on growing children at around age 8, by training these kids to keep their mouth shut, you change the direction of the jaw growth. As the kid’s face develops now with jaws shut, the maxilla is able to grow forwards. And its when the maxilla displaces forward in the face, the dramatic change in facial aesthetics is seen.
You begin to understand how silly orthodontists are trying to move teeth around, they are in complete ignorance to the much more profound effect of the maxilla on patient’s life. When you understand that teeth sit in the balance of the soft tissue and maxilla is really what needs to be treated, it could make orthodontists obsolete in the near future.
The reason why I am a good test for this new technique is that I am someone that has done everything else from palate expansion, face pulling with hockey helmet and 1.5 years of “mewing”. For me focusing on the posterior tongue is what made the most difference during that time, but now can these changes be enhanced or sped up by anyway?
As adults that already grew down, you may need extra towing to get that big bone to come forwards again.
Mike’s comment regarding the 12 year old girl was, “Age- over the age of 9 it is unlikely that there will be much change in the area of the maxilla supporting the eye (unless two cycles of treatment occurs or excellent motivation).”
I can see how this can be true, even with lots of palate expansion the area below the eyes did not change much for me. However there is still a lot of sutures in those areas which tells me it all has the potential for change.
But just like the lateral forces caused my palate to widen, surely if we can get direct forward forces as close to that area as possible, the surrounding sutures will have to displace & change over time.
I am hopeful yet conservative with my observations at this stage, because I’ve seen / experienced other treatments not live up to its hype.
I know the mind can play a huge placebo effect whenever you are dealing with these sorts of things because you being looking for it. I’m here to check for more definitive results, not blow sunshine up your arse.
stay tuned.
-CP
Hi CP
I’m currently contemplating on a treatment option. The treatment involves wearing the TRAINER appliance (made by MRC) for around eight months for bony restoration. Then I’ll wear myobrace for a year or so to close the gaps and move everything forward.
The ortho claims that this treatment will help grow the area below the eyes. I remember reading a post where you compared the skull to a fixed amount of play dough in that it only can be remodeled but no new bone can be added or removed (do you still believe this?). Does this mean that the treatment could make my face (esp the area between eyes and mouth) shorter and wider?
The treatment costs a lot of money but I seriously want a shorter face. Do you think I should go through with it?
there is probably limits to what can be done with MRC alone, I am sure it will help along with myofunctional therapy
most likely I’d probably hold off on getting into treatment with ortho for now, we may have something better soon. Just stick to myofuntional therapy for yourself
Forgot to mention – I made that comment because I couldn’t find another way of contacting you. If you kept the above picture unpublished i’d greatly appreciate it.
myofunctional therapy instructs the patient to sleep on his or her back. if you sleep on your side, gravity along with light force of tongue cause growth unevenly. sleep on your back and all the forces are pointed straight up, exactly where you want you mid face to grow. Speaking from experience, its the most important factor for growth.
When you say from experience, do you mean you slept on your back and grew properly as a kid? It makes sense, as (including many other factors, of course) I slept practically on my face and now have mediocre, blog-worthy facial proportions today.
God no. I had horrible sleeping patterns; mouth breathing, sleeping on my side face. Now im 23 with a chronic headache and a class 3 malocclusion. been doin myo therapy for a year. Sleeping on back was hard so I gave up. when i read why it was so important i forced myself to do it. literally the first morning after, i saw a difference. This is assuming one has proper tongue posture and lip seal that holds thought the night.
First off I’m 15 and I rarely am negative until what happened just jow. I have been doing the mew push mew swallow and it worked because my maxilla moved upwards but…it changed something in the bone structure and now swallowing anything including saliva is HELL. I can’t even sleep anymore because it’s causing so much problems. It feels like the shape of the palette is weird now, before I could swallow fine… my palette isn’t narrow or anything but this caused me so much pain over the course of 5 days that I considered suicide. I don’t know how to fix this. Please help CP before anything bad might happen.
Please help CP, it’s difficult to swallow saliva and I have to do it every 3-10 seconds. I haven’t slept for 24 hours and skipped a day of school to figure this out.
Please CP. This is so hard for me…I am considering ending this pain forever….unless there is a way to fix this somehow.
Here’s some additional info:
I can’t swallow properly now without extreme discomfort and pain.
My palette is wide.
My maxilla isn’t that collapsed at all.
But somehow after mew push swallowing intensively for 4 months this happened. The pallete structure changed and now it’s so difficult to swallow anything. I wish I never started this. I would rather die than have to suffer this. I wish there was an easy way out but there’s not. I bought membership from this website too. I hope you can help me find a solution CP. Thanks and you give me hope :).
Damn Bobby Liu that sounds awful sorry to hear that!. “mewing inensely for 4 months”. If you apply “intense” force on your palate for four months youll grow weak and brittle bone. you want light forces over a long period of time so the bone can settle and be strong.
my best guess on how to fix your situation? go see a doctor who know about this orthotrpic stuff obviously. but wait it out and let the bone settle.
There isn’t any evidence that states what you mentioned above to be true.
Yeah bro, Bobby Liu my man, take some deep breaths. If you are in as much pain as you are describing you should go the E.R. Asap and find out what the hell is going on exactly. No one can advise you on emergency health through the internet. Take care of yourself and update us bro, I am sure you are going to be just fine, just get evaluated asap
Thanks neymarjr10 and Samuel smith. I went to a doctor get it checked out and apparently I have multiple infections. They gave me some antibiotics and now I feel much better. Now that I’m back to normal I’m going to use that pain to fuel me to buy neymars product. Thanks guys! 🙂
Glad you went and got everything looked at. I went through the exact same thing as you right around your age. In my case it was related to the foods I was eating.. I had developed something of an allergy to cow dairy and to wheat (since overcome that and can eat whatever I want again because it was actually related to low immunity from poor lifestyle).
Only reason I am bringing this up is to help you understand that it might recur and if so to try and help you figure out what the cause of it was. I saw you mentioned diet so you are aware of the connection which is good. Make sure also to get plenty of sunlight – adequate vitamin D levels will squash any future inflammatory episodes like the one you just went through if it is indeed food related.
If it keeps coming back (chronic) then I hope you will reach out to me as I will be able to help because I already went through the exact same thing and beat it. Doctors will probably want you to remove your tonsils which I wouldn’t recommend… if you are posting here than I am sure you understand the importance of leaving the body alone.
Of course there is also the chance that it was just a one off infection that will never happen again – there’s no way for me to tell from the other side of a computer screen.
I had a massive throat infection and saliva gland infection and back tongue infection. I take good care of myself and have no idea how this happened. Next time I’ll be safer and start putting only healthy food in my body. Thanks guys! You saved my life!
Dying for your treatment update with neymarjr. I’m seriously considering buying his Method soon.
Dude very disturbing to see your username. I lost a family member to suicide. There are a lot better options like attacking whatever is causing the pain. But easier said than done, I know.
If it is CFD that is causing you the pain, I can tell you with 1000{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} certainty, in my opinion, the Maxilla Method is by far the most powerful and effective therapy for CFD. That is not the question at this point. The question is how powerful and how effective it will be over time, which we are in the process of finding out and will take time. You don’t want to miss out on this man, believe me you want to stay here on earth. It is going to be a much much better world when there is a legitimate therapy for suffers, not just Le Fort 1 attacks or palate expanders etc.
I 100{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} believe all this was caused by CFD. Or at the very least CFD made the problems severe. It’s time for a change in this world to take place. Thanks for everything NeymarJr10. At this point I have many friends interested in buying your product. Your product can save so many lives. There has never been anything, and I mean ANYTHING more motivating than your discovery in my ENTIRE LIFE. I will stay here on Earth and fight on forever because I know your invention will change everything. Thank you man!
Hello Neymarjr,
How much would your procedure cost, and does the minor surgery include removing body parts ? Is it a procedure that can be used all day long even at work ? If it’s ok to ask.
I have been mewing for almost two years with very little results, you can imagine how that makes me feel.
Also, do you recommend sleeping on one’s back ? I have been trying but it crushes my airways so I have to always arch my back slightly to relieve the stress, it proves impossible for me to fall asleep on my back.
Thank you.
He has commented before that the surgery is less invasive that wisdom teeth removal, so I doubt it involves removing body parts. Don’t think he will reveal much more than that 🙂
No, it doesn’t involve removing body parts. lol
I can imagine how that feels. Mewing and palate expansion and most of the other therapies are very difficult to make bring change to adults, particularly in the forward dimension. It is my view that the Maxilla Method is most effective for forward dimension by far, which is truly invaluable.
I sleep on my back. I used to suffer from sleep apnea and waking up with a dry mouth. Not anymore. With the Maxilla Method, I can sleep on my back and sleep beautifully through my nose with my lips closed all night long, waking up feeling refreshed as ever in my life. Airway improvements are the most valuable part of Maxilla Method in my opinion
Thank you for you reply.
How much does your program cost and when will it be available for purchase ?
@SuicideSoon Im just reciting what my DNA appliance provider (similar to the biobloc) told me. It makes sense though. When you break a bone you don’t want to take the cast off prematurely otherwise the bone wont heal properly. Gotta let that puppy settle and become dense! You don’t your bone structure in your face to be weak and brittle! and word to neymarjr10 you definitely want to stick around there’s alot of new techniques being developed. But im also excited to see the treatment update with neymarjr.
From what I’ve heard, if any of you are interested. Claiming Power has had some INCREDIBLE changes. I estimate he will post something within a week or so. Everyone be prepared for the REVOLUTION that will come.
I thought you guys might find this interesting. It’s four pictures of a celebrity over a timespan of about 25 years showing clear facial structure changes.
http://imgur.com/uDp9FJg
I’ll let the pictures speak for themselves…
Chronological order btw.
CP, have you tried the Stage 3 Biobloc yet and can you use it while also doing the Neymar treatment?
Hey CP, this is another private post, or you can make it public, whatever.
I was going through your old blog entries and I noticed that your diet back then was mainly cooked vegetables with butter and some beef liver, and I saw that you mentioned the words vegan and raw foodist too.
I’m not sure how to put this delicately, because that isn’t my personality type, but none of those diets are going to be optimal especially if you are looking for some late age bone growth/remodeling.
I don’t know how to properly convey this via text or how to get you to believe or even trust me but: however much you learned about teeth/face and all that, I learned about nutrition. I’ve spent over 8 years researching it on my own. I do believe like you said that there are diets that can turn bone to clay as I have seen the results in myself. After switching to a new type of diet I saw tons of late age jaw growth – so much so that my jaw actually outgrew my mandible (which was under grown in the first place) which is how I found your site.
You saw the pictures of Joel McHale I posted earlier, which proves that this stuff is possible in adults, which i’m sure you already knew/believed, and I know that you are doing the neymar thing right now, so you might not even need to switch up your diet, but I believe it would help. It could make your bones more malleable via increased minerals and nutrients and metabolism, and up your hormones as well (more test, less estrogen). The bones of the face aren’t ‘capped’ like the arms/legs and actually respond very readily to the changing hormones of the body. Lots of testosterone helps the bones of the face to change rapidly.. you can look this up too. I mean if you think about it, have you ever seen a super aggressive high testosterone person with a flat and long face? It doesn’t seem possible. The face tells you how the body is operating. Of course it might be a chicken and egg type situation but i’m sure both sides of the issue can play a role.
Obviously I have no idea what your diet looks like now so I may be completely off base, but anyways, just incase I am not i’ll give you some interesting links that you can read on your own time. I don’t own any of these sites or even know who does so i’m not plugging anything. They are all legit too. Some of them might lean too much on trying to sell stuff, as the initial phase of discovery and learning all happened back in 2010-2013. Human diet is basically a solved problem at this point, so in order to find the good stuff, you might have to dig into the archives.
https://freetheanimal.com/
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/
http://raypeat.com/articles/
http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/
Oh and basically, if you get bored reading those, i’ll tell you that the traditional japanese diet is right on point. I’m talking the old school way things were prepared and served, not what gets eaten now. Then you’d need a good source of dairy and you’d be set. But now i’m just rambling.
Let me know what you think
Could you tell us more about the diet you were on when you experienced these changes? This is very interesting. Craniofacial dystrophy is something that I think has to be tackled from every angle and you’d be helping alot as you say you’ve been reading about this for eight years. And do you think we should actually eat dairy as it is meant for cows?
Also when you say that you’re jaw outgrew your mandible did you mean to say your mandible outgrew your maxilla? 🙂
To your second question: Yes, I meant that my mandible (jaw) outgrew my maxilla (face) so that I ended up hitting tip to tip on my top and bottom teeth and so that my bottom teeth were wider than my upper ones.
My theory is that if I had the proper tongue and tooth posture at that time like Mew and CP talk about, the growing jaw would have helped the maxilla come forward and up, but due to poor occlusion at the time, and poor resting/sleeping habits, the jaw grew on its own. I’ll also add that as a child I had an orthodontic procedure done called canine substitution which is where a person is missing two teeth up top, and instead of opening it up for implants they retract the maxilla to close up the spaces, so my maxilla was always going to be stunted. I’m in braces to reverse that since finding this site.
During that period of jaw growth I also added raw carrots into my diet and developed a bit of a grinding and clenching habit, so i’m sure both of those helped give my jaw a reason to get larger/longer just from extra usage.
(ok brace yourself for the below section, this post got really long)
Now as far as diet is concerned, all I really tried to do was to find a diet that was ‘optimal’ for humans, meaning best hormone production, highest health, highest metabolism/energy, least diseases/problems, etc. I ended up learning a lot and it’s hard to summarize it nicely but the diet was basically a return to basics in that it followed the foods that we evolved eating (minus wheat, because it has recently been altered). I stopped worrying about calories or sodium or fats or cholesterol etc and allowed my body to EAT WELL so that I could really rev up my metabolism.
As far as specific foods I ate lots of white rice, potatoes & japanese yams, tons of fruits, cooked & fermented vegetables, herbs, lots of eggs, red meat cooked medium rare & organs like liver and heart, and huge amounts of fermented full fat dairy. I also cut out all sugar, all wheat, and all vegetable oils and instead for fats I ate things like butter, ghee, tallow, etc.
Now I saw that you specifically mentioned dairy. Back when I experimented with Paleo I too cut out all dairy, and it really helped me as far as clearing up acne, making me feel more clear minded, etc. So at that time I believed that dairy was indeed “just for cows”, but this is wrong. The devil is in the details. You need to eat the RIGHT KIND of dairy in order to avoid the negative effects that most people experience. I could probably write a small book about this but i’ll try to break it down super simply.
First of all there are two major kinds of dairy out there in the world. A1 and A2 dairy. This refers to the type of casein that is in the dairy product. 99{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of the dairy that you can find at a store today is A1 dairy – this is the one that is bad for your health and will give you huge problems. A2 dairy on the other hand is the dairy that humans evolved eating and it is great for you. A2 dairy comes from sheeps, goats, and only a very very small amount of cows.
You can see a company that has been started around this principle here: https://www.a2milk.com/ (no affiliation)
Now beyond just that, how the dairy is processed can determine even further whether it is good for your body or not. So dairy starts as milk right? If you just drink it just like that – (I won’t even get into raw vs pasteurized right now, but that’s important too.. however I would never advocate drinking raw milk due to the risks) – it will be tough to digest for most people. So what you can do is either ferment it into yogurt or kefir, or separate it and make cheese.
Sidenote: anytime you ferment something, it becomes easier to digest.
So now you have kefir and yogurt, which are fermented milk, or you have cheese, which is milk that has been separated. All of these are easier to digest than pure milk. But you can take things a step further and ferment the cheese itself. This means you have taken milk, separated it, and then fermented it on top of that – so two steps of removal. This is the easiest type of dairy to digest – fermented cheese. And the process of fermentation proves the dairy with additional nutrients like vitamin K2 (helps you utilize the calcium) and bacteria that go into your gut and improve your health in a variety of ways.
So as far as the question of dairy being bad for you, it comes down to the details. I advise people who are scared of dairy to experiment with sheeps feta cheese. It is lactose free A2 fermented cheese – easy to digest for anyone.
And make no mistake, a lot of the current human population has ancestors that evolved around dairy. Cutting it out is not a good thing. And even in populations that don’t have a dairy culture, like in parts of asia, I believe that they are already seeing huge boosts in their average heights due to an adoption of dairy
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/01/world/tokyo-journal-the-japanese-it-seems-are-outgrowing-japan.html
http://www.naturalheightgrowth.com/2012/10/13/the-changing-body-and-increase-in-height-of-japanese-women-and-girls-in-the-last-century/
(i heard they make kids drink milk for breakfast now over there)
Completely off topic but you seem like that you’re the only person on this comment section who knows what they’re talking about so I was gonna ask you a question. I’m 16 yo male and I already have a decent jaw but was wondering if by chewing mastic if I can make it longer and horizontal because models seem to have a longer jaw. Also if at 16 it’s already too late or I’m right where I need to be?
mylessimon, it’s not letting me reply directly to your comment but hopefully you see this reply anyways.
First I will say that your age is no problem. I experienced growth in my mid-20’s, and I spoke to a few orthos who said they have seen this in select patients as well. They mentioned it is usually seen in ‘bigger’ dudes (tall?).
But as far as how to grow your jaw the most, you literally have 10 years to reach where I am now age-wise so i’m sure you can get some good growth. Just focus on the basics you read here on this amazing site: chewing tough things often to build that good muscle tone, keeping tongue up on the palate to expand the upper (the lower will follow) and push the maxilla forward which will allow the jaw to come up and out more. Chew lots of hard foods like carrots, apples, maybe jerky etc. Also clench your jaws when you get stressed, I think this will help a lot but you could damage your teeth over time if you have poor bone density/poor diet so understand the risks. Our ancestors, like CP said in an earlier post, ground their teeth down to basically flat plates from lots of chewing so the human body can handle it, but idk if most modern people can handle that without really breaking something.
But beyond that, which is the advice you will find here, I think it’s important to focus on your hormones and metabolism. You are trying to transform your face and become a different person… in order to do this you need to live a different lifestyle. Focus on eating tons of amazing food (doesn’t have to be expensive) that will give you tons of energy and vitality. Focus on boosting your hormones as much as possible. Experiment with nofap/noporn so that your test goes higher and your frustration/aggression goes up as well. Lift weights so that your overall muscle mass goes up which will put your body in muscle building mode which might help your facial muscles get denser/stronger (no idea here but sounds reasonable). You want great results so you need to make some big changes. And at the end of the day nothing is guaranteed. You can go check vin diesel out, his jaw isn’t that great, but it looks like he did have extraction ortho done from the pictures of his teeth i could find.
Anyways, by the time you make all the changes I suggested, you might stop caring so much about whether your jaw is super strong or not. But it will grow.. the question is how much. No one here knows because we are just at the beginning of this process of turning facial beauty into a science.
One thing I will say though is that if you look at movies from the 60’s you will see a lot of people with great faces. Like for example check out the original star trek series vs the modern movies. It’s really amazing how damaged modern humans are. But now i’m rambling again.
Hey, thanks for replying. I’m chewing mastic gum everyday. I’m wondering because my 12 year old molar in the back is just now coming in, will that cause some growth too? Also how long do you think hollowing of the cheeks take and is it supposed to feel like you’re sucking on the palate and your lips feel like they’re being sucked in kinda like a vaccum?
As your 12yr molars come in, it should help your jaw out yea. Just the act of them coming in might help push things forward which would lengthen the jaw, but on top of that, once they start coming together and you are chewing with them, it should help the bone in the surrounding area to get much more dense and the muscles to get stronger. It will also give you more force/surface area for pushing your maxilla up and out. The same applies to wisdom teeth once those come in. Try your best to keep those if you can.
As for hollowing of the cheeks I can’t say because I don’t know. But you should notice other changes pretty quickly with the shape of the face if you are mewing correctly, which based on your description you are not. You don’t want to feel like your cheeks are being sucked in, that means you are activating the wrong muscles and are actually pushing on the wrong side of the teeth (inwards towards your throat). This is bad. You should be pushing your teeth outwards (expanding) or not at all (depending on how wide your arch is).
But the ‘sucking on the palate’ is a pretty good description for the right technique. I keep my tongue plastered on the roof of my mouth by kind of sucking on it, if that makes sense. I also make sure to push up pretty hard with the whole surface of my tongue, and I do push outwards on my teeth because my arch is narrow right now.
But I never ever use my lips or cheek muscles, and they don’t get sucked inwards. My lips and cheeks are completely relaxed and at rest, with good seal.
You should do the ‘cheesy smile’ technique to get your tongue up there (especially the back part) and then practice sucking on it (creating a vacuum between the tongue and the palate) to keep it up there. I’ve only been doing it for about a month now and my face got so much wider that I can actually pull off aviator sunglasses for the first time in my life. Pretty sure its a majority muscle change, and not as much actual bone change. It’ll be interesting to see what happens over the long term though.
You know what, after making that post I decided to test some things out and I’ll kind of edit my earlier post by saying that the ‘suction’ technique of getting the tongue up on the palate is something you should only use to get your tongue up there, but for keeping it up there it should be all tongue muscle. That will give you the maximum up+out force. So suction just to get things started and then after that all tongue muscle. Just mess around until you get a feel for it.
Thank you so much. I constantly push up on the soft part of the palate as hard as I can with teeth just quite touching. Now are you supposed to keep the back of the tongue up there all of the time because it makes my tongue feel strained after a while of holding the back of the tongue up there or like it’s pushing into my airway slightly, do you expierence this?
Yea, the back portion of the tongue is the most important part to keep up there because it is thicker and stronger than the front. So keeping it up there will get you better results. It could be getting strained because you are pushing really hard to get quick results and because you just aren’t used to it yet. Just do what you can for now and experiment too. The default mode should have your tongue just resting up there (pushing gently only) and not pushing like crazy. The pushing really hard part is just to get results quick.
As far as the airway issue is concerned CP talked about this on another post, here are his exact words:
“the fact that it makes the nasal breathing uncomfortable is a sign you are doing it correct. it got better for me, but you just have to keep trying it.
because of vertical growth of the face, the tongue doesn’t have the space needed so it is pushed back into the throat / airway. also make sure to have good head posture while you do this. I found that tucking the chin in helps open up a little bit of air space.”
If you wanna find that post type in ‘proper tongue posture claimingpower’ into google. I’d link to it but then my post wouldn’t go through until a moderator allowed it.
whenever you drink something, how do you get the liquid that’s in front of the mouth to go back where you can swallow it because the only way I can do it is by sucking on the palate and the liquid comes back sorta like a vaccum effect.
When I’m drinking something.. hmm I think it depends. The way I drink is that I take huge gulps so it usually just goes straight to the back of my tongue and I just use the push swallow from there. Usually I just let my instincts handle this one, and I’ve never thought about it too much.
But if you are talking about taking sips, or in the case of having excess saliva in the mouth, then what I do is use my lip muscles and create a kind of vacuum to push everything back and vacuum it back in order to get it onto my tongue so I can push swallow it.
Mike mew says not to do this, and to ‘scoop’ the tongue instead, but I haven’t figured out how to make this work, and it goes against my instincts, so whatever, but I still experiment with it every now and then. I think the most important part is to swallow correctly once everything is on the back of your tongue… all the stuff before that shouldn’t matter too much because the forces are very light and the amount of time it takes is very small.
If you push swallow correctly, and have good resting posture for both the tongue and the teeth with a good lip seal, then a little bit of lip suction here and there doesn’t matter.
My main point in my earlier posts when i told you not to use lip suction was me trying to say don’t use that as your default resting posture.
Thank you, I don’t know what I would do without you. By scooping does he mean to take the tongue off the palate and scooping underneath it?
Yeah exactly, but I’ve never been able to make that work, so I just use the suction method.
Since you brought it up I actually found a place where CP talks about it too. He says:
“sweep the tip of your tongue down into the bottom of front incisor to literally scoop it up. or suck with your mouth which will collect all the moisture”
which is pretty much what we decided on. IMO the main thing to focus on is proper resting posture and proper actual swallowing posture – everything else is so minuscule in comparison that it doesn’t really matter. Just follow your instincts and do what feels right/good, and don’t worry about getting all the details right 100{ae022d2295c0485893c83c8425b5bfafafba893c2d19b1bb9bc4c7c9bf3eeba6} of the time. Everything will fall into place over time as you keep experimenting and learning.
I’d also recommend to go back through this blog and read every single post and every single comment because there is a TON of information out there that helped me and can probably help you too.
I noticed in a older post that he said people with hollow cheeks use this suction method almost to where the cheeks are sucking in for them and as a result they have hollow cheeks
Yeah I see that now that you pointed it out. If you go back to the top of that article though, he points out how an improper swallow uses suction that pushes backwards on the dentition which is bad. Besides, the type of suction he talks about only happens during a swallow, and it’s not something you sit around doing all day long. Just swallow properly and it will happen.
So if you get a glass of water before reading the next paragraph it would help.
Basically there are two types of swallows. In one of them, the lips basically go backwards into/onto and in between the teeth, and the vacuum is created in the front of your mouth to get the food down your throat. This is bad. If you do this swallow you will see your lips and cheeks move while you are swallowing.
The second type of swallow uses mainly your tongue to create the vacuum, and then the force of your tongue pushing itself upwards to cause the food/liquid to get sucked down the throat. I do feel a little bit of muscle movement in my cheeks when I do this, maybe it’s just my jaw muscles. But if you do this type of swallow in the mirror your face should be completely still and only your throat should show that you are swallowing.
So yeah, there are two kinds of suction, one is good one is bad. I don’t know if the suction itself creates the hollow cheeks. There’s a chance that hollow cheeks are a result of having high and protruding cheekbones and a nice wide muscular jaw which causes the skin of the cheek to get kind of stretched between them, and then if your cheeks aren’t chubby or overly muscular from improper technique then they will hollow out.
The main point I want to get across is don’t go around sucking in your cheeks all day long zoolander style trying to get hollow cheeks because that would mess up your teeth and give you the wrong muscles. Instead focus on pushing your palate upwards to get your cheekbones out more and higher, and focus on getting your jaw nice and wide and muscular.
When I use suction to keep my tongue up against my palate it feels good to me, but when I use suction to cave my cheeks in it feels bad.
All I will say is that the teeth sit “in the balance of the soft tissues”, so by caving your cheeks in, you are more than likely going to cave your arches in if you keep it up for a long time. On the other hand, if you let your cheeks be relaxed, and only activate the tongue, then your teeth/arches should hit their maximum width.
Feel free to experiment though. Do what feels right and don’t overthink things or try to rush your results.
Also I just went and checked in the mirror and my cheeks are thinner than ever, like they almost seem paper thin in the area where I want them to hollow out, so there is evidence this is working. My cheekbones aren’t that great though and I’m not super lean so I doubt I will get truly hollow cheeks until I fix both of those things. Just keep at it.
Thank you. Sorry for bothering you again but I was thinking and wondering if somebody that has a already good maxilla and set of jaws, would their process go a lot faster since their able to get their tongue up and aren’t as behind as others? Also if taking vitamin D3 supplements would benefit too?
Getting good vitamin D levels is one of the most important things you can for yourself for a number of reasons. Vitamin D along with K2, calcium, and magnesium will make your bones super healthy and strong, and perhaps make them more easily growable/moldable.
As far as how to get the vitamin D, I would suggest getting it from natural sunlight by basking in the sun as this is the way nature intended it, and as there are other very important benefits to sunlight beyond just the vitamin D. Benjamin Franklin actually advocated letting the sunlight shine directly onto your teeth in order to cure toothaches. I’ve tried it before and it doesn’t feel bad.
This depends on where you live of course – some places barely get any sunlight all year, and some places get some in the summer and then are cloudy all winter long.
There are supplements you can take of course, but I have tried them and I don’t like them. They mess with your natural circadian rhythm and they take away your desire to go outside and get real sunlight. If you live in a super cloudy country they might be necessary but i’m not sure. Maybe just spend more time outdoors. Depends on your skin type too.
As far as already having a good maxilla position and set of jaws, i’m guessing you are asking specifically about if this will help get hollow cheeks sooner. No clue. I don’t really understand yet what causes hollow cheeks but if you want to see something cool go check out the difference between Abraham Lincoln in his younger and older photos. Might be something valuable there.
http://www.facepulling.com/adult-maxillary-protraction-a-case-study/
This article on facepulling.com is encouraging. This adult woman pulled her maxilla in four months with actual x-ray verifiable results and she was pulling forward ONLY, as opposed to up and forwards and did so using the teeth as an anchor which is not preferrential. Her results in four months aren’t incredible but they are certainly visible. Imagine what a couple years of treatment could do.
The woman in that article does look much better, she did also have braces to improve her arch shape which does contribute to the better result.
Do you know where to get XRAY CT Scans in the UK?
Im always reading here….and google the biobloc stage 3 i cannot find anywhere where i get a map or something
there are so many out there
http://german.myoresearch.com/appliances/appliances/biobloc
is it this one?
or where can i get the stage 3 biobloc???
I don’t think you can just buy a biobloc. You need to see an orthodontist who can have it made and put it in for you.
On that note, while I’m skeptical of all this neymarr stuff (especially the prices being thrown around) one thing he said he really recommended was a myobrace lip trainer. Anyone know where to find one?
Think there was a post earlier on with a link to purchase it. I’ve had some awesome results from changing my oral posture and chewing more, please email me at EJOMonkey@hotmail.co.uk if you’re interested
@Spiff You could buy a biobloc or any expansion appliance yourself – all required is an impression of the users mouth to be sent off and the appliance would be created for your mouth specifically.
Some websites above would send you the material needed to take an impression then you send it back – this is a far cheaper and better option than paying $8000 to an orthodontist whos stuck in his/her old ways and does the treatment exactly how he/she wants – people can do it themselves with NEW knowledge.
I’m not sure what websites you’re referring to.
I’m saving for treatment, anyone who’s has ALF could you email me please? Would like to talk, thank you!
Sounds to like the foremost expert in all this is Mike Mew. I did ring about getting treated there, but I think that he is flooded with patients at the moment. Where do you get ALF treatment in the UK? All links look like North America when I Googled
Mike Mew isnt the foremost expert in this area.
What do you all think of wearing a scarf around your head/chin to improve tongue posture and keep the mouth shut? I’ve been testing it for around an hour and it seems to help a bit, especially since my resting posture tends to be my lips closed but jaws slightly open unless I’m really concentrating on my tongue and remember to work on proper posture. I don’t plan on keeping the scarf so tightly wrapped that my face gets damaged or I accidentally grind my teeth, but a decent amount of pressure feels pretty good right now. There’s no struggle to keep my jaws together, and it’s not tight enough to be very uncomfortable. CP’s results so far (in the membership blog) are pretty remarkable, so I’m pretty much just biding time until Neymar’s treatment becomes available outside of the test group, and am getting my posterior third up as much as possible until then. If wearing a scarf is either dangerous or won’t help at all, I’d like to know. Thanks!
CP has mentioned before that he used to tape his mouth shut so I think that would be fine. However not sure about a scarf as I think it will put unnecessary force on the face- it should be your own muscles keeping your mouth closed and if you get into the habit of doing it with assistance from a scarf I think the muscles could almost get lazy and rely on the scarf if you understand what I mean? Any force you place on the body will have a result and you don’t know whether that force will have a positive or negative affect. But hey that’s just my opinion, you could do it and it could turn out amazing. I’ve been considering buying a membership with CP but was put off after seeing a woman comment saying she couldn’t cancel her membership. Is it worth it? And with regards to Neymar’s method, the amount I’ve been quoted I just can’t afford as a student, I’m gutted if its as good as you say it is!
I remember CP talking about using tape in the past, and it sounds like a viable option. I just don’t like the idea of getting tape near my hair and having to constantly use new pieces when the old ones wear out, but I do see what you mean about muscles getting lazy from essentially being propped up without effort. My goal is to use the scarf temporarily as a reminder to keep my mouth fully shut as opposed to treating it as a fully fledged appliance, and to make sure I’m not totally passive in correcting my posture. I’ve been chewing mastic gum daily for over a week, as well.
The woman who couldn’t cancel her membership had trouble finding the “Account” section at the top of the site, that’s all. I subscribed in December for a month and am now at it again, without issue. I’d say membership is worth it, although I space it out instead of renewing every month because the personal attention/support as advertised in the signup isn’t offered anymore due to CP being swamped with his main business, and I’m not rich enough to spend $10 US every single month for an article.
How much were you quoted? I inquired a long time ago and was told $500 but it kept going up within the comment section here, though I’d probably be willing to pay more if CP’s final results are stunning. I shouldn’t give away too much info about the article, but he has noticeable improvements in 3 weeks. 6 months to a year would probably be mind blowing.
Sorry my reply has been posted as a separate comment, forgot to say with regards to chewing it’s worth having “rest days” otherwise it could be expensive to keep purchasing the gum
Hi Emily, How much was you quoted for NeymarJrs method?
Yes that’s a good point actually definitely worth weighing up the pros and cons before you do it, I think it’s a great idea when you put it like that just don’t do it constantly or like we’ve agreed your muscles may get “lazy”.
Ah I understand, I hadn’t even realise you could pay like that i thought once you’d joined that’s it. Think I will pay membership for the next month, it will give me that extra motivation to keep going with this.
You’re going to wish you’d signed up straight away I think, from what you’re saying they’ve realised how amazing the results are and are using that as a major selling point. I’ve been quoted $5000 just to join the team, and more than that on top for the procedure to then be carried out. If the results are as remarkable as people are saying then I eventually would be willing to pay that price when I am out of education, but currently that’s just not something I could achieve. I have a slight fear by the time However I have enough money it will cost even more.
Hi ClaimingPower, Where did you get your CT Scans done, most places I have contacted in the UK require a referall from a GP or professional?
Do you live in the UK?
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